Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival thread

Ed; VERY GOOD. Thank you. Apparently all requests for a safety and skills forum HAVE fallen on deaf ears, which is why I started this thread. Lots of first-time motorcyclists buy XJs and join us, I wanted a way for the more experienced among us to be able to pass along our years of experience.

 

Ed those are excellent posts. I have been riding a long time but you can never hear the skills required enough. I learn something new to me all the time.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

STOPPING QUICKLY IN A CURVE:

One of the most dangerous things a rider can do is failure to set up for a curve. I am going to cover a few things that are LIFE-SAVING skills. Ideally, you want to set up for your entry speed before you enter a curve.

ENTRY SPEED: A speed at which you can enter a curve at which you can either maintain or roll on throttle.

Some have heard of the SLPR, or, Slow, Look, Press and Roll. Everything is pretty much self explanatory except that some new riders may not have herat the term. ROLL, is to roll on the throttle. Some call it SLOW, LOOK, PRESS AND LEAN. By pressing, you are going to lean anyway.

To enter a curve you must first set up your entry speed. It is extremely dangerous to brake in a curve. Deceleration, or letting off the throttle comes under this to a large degree. I should first explain why it is so dangerous to slow or brake in a curve.
First of all, when you go around a curve and you are in a counter-steer with the bike in a considerable lean, there is a force on the motorcycle called CENTRIFUGAL FORCE which causes the bike to want to go to the outside of the turn, thus the lean to counter-act the force. The tires of the motorcycle will do some unbelievable things. It is amazing how the can hold while in considerable turns and curves. When you perform any kind of braking action or deceleration in a curve you are asking the tires to do more than one thing. In addition to the centrifugal force that is already on the tires, now you are asking them to brake the motorcycle. This takes away a major part of the ability of the tire to maintain traction which can result in a loss of traction causing the bike to fall and leave considerable amounts of skin and feces as you slide across the road or under a passing vehicle. Not too much fun at all.
So, the idea is to not brake or decelerate in a curve. Different things can cause problems in a curve such as entering the curve too fast, braking, decelerating or downshifting. When preparing for an entry into a curve you should first slow to a suitable entry speed. Remember? A speed at which you can either maintain or roll on the throttle throughout the curve.
I should add one very important thing. By maintaining speed or accelerating throughout the curve you will be stabilizing the suspension. By braking or decelerating you effectively shift the weight of the bike causing the suspension to become unstable, therefore adding another undesirable force on the tires.
This being said, in spite of it all, sooner or later you may come across a situation where it will become absolutely necessary to slow while in a turn. The key here is to avoid any abrupt movements that will cause the suspension to become unstable. If you find yourself in a situation that you MUST slow while in a curve, GENTLY roll off the throttle and apply BOTH brakes VERY LIGHTLY favoring the rear brake until you can get the situation under control. This can still get you in trouble. It is a judgment call on your behalf that only you can make. Sometimes a situation can change from one second to another.
Back to the topic on hand. When you are approaching a curve, before you get into the curve, SLOW, using both brakes while downshifting as necessary. Stabilize your speed. LOOK into the turn or curve as far as you can, PRESS the handlebars in the direction that you want to go (press right - go right, Press left-go left) (more on this later). ROLL on the throttle. If the situation allows you can up-shift throughout the turn or curve so long as you don't go crazy with the throttle. Not a good idea to try wheelies in a curve.

Now, for stopping quickly in a curve: The technical definition of a swerve is TWO CONSECUTIVE COUNTER-STEERS. One to get into a curve, the other to recover and square the handlebars. By "Square" the handlebars, I mean to level them horizontally. If the handlebars are horizontally level, you are effectively out of the curve. At that time it would be safe to apply BOTH brakes for MAXIMUM BRAKING.
You can SWERVE and you can BRAKE. It is very important to separate the two. NEVER brake in a swerve, I promise you that you won't like the result. It can lead to broken bones and a lot of lost skin.
You should get out and practice this so you will have a pretty good idea as to what to do.

Ride Safely,

Ed

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

COUNTER-STEERING:

How many riders that you know that actually know what counter-steering is and how to explain it?

I have talked with EXPERIENCED riders, and just for giggles asked them if they could explain counter-steering and how to do it. Actually, I just ask them how they initiate motorcycle lean. Surprisingly enough, most tell me that they just lean their body a bit and the motorcycle follows. It can do that but it is not the proper was to initiate motorcycle lean.

Some tell me that they "push down" on the handlebars. This also can work to an extent but is still not the proper way and not nearly as effective.

TO EFFECTIVELY INITIATE MOTORCYCLE LEAN: Press FORWARD on the handlebars in the direction of the turn. Press FORWARD on the LEFT hand grip and the motorcycle begins to lean to the LEFT. Press FORWARD on the RIGHT hand grip and the motorcycle begins to lean RIGHT.

This is where it screws a lot of riders minds up big time. Effectively, you are turning the handlebars in the OPPOSITE direction that you want to turn. I have had people look at me like I am some kind of idiot. I will try to explain this a bit better than to just let it hang.

The front wheel acts somewhat like a gyroscope. If you have ever played with a gyroscope or a spinning top when you were a kid you might get the idea as to what I am talking about. Gyroscopes have been used for who knows how long. They are used in the space capsules, the space shuttle, aircraft and also in aircraft instruments to to stabilize the path of travel. They help keep down and resist erratic movement.

I need to clarify something before going too far. When performing a counter-steer, the motorcycle actually does the leaning and you, the rider, sit upright with the motorcycle. You do NOT lean to either side. In other words, you lean with the motorcycle.

Say I am preparing to go around a curve to the LEFT. I SLOW to an appropriate entry speed, PRESS (forward) on the LEFT hand-grip. The motorcycle will begin to lean to the left and also start making a turn to the left. To straighten, I merely PRESS the RIGHT hand grip (forward) and the bike will straighten and become upright again. The amount of lean is a direct result of how much PRESS that you apply. To go around a curve to the RIGHT, PRESS right, lean right, GO right. To recover, simply press forward slightly on the left, or opposite hand-grip and there you are.

I have seen instructors teach with the terminology to turn the handlebars in the opposite direction that the rider wants to go. This is absolutely true but it does not sit well with someone's mind that if they want to turn right, they need to turn the handlebars left. Something up there just does not compute.

A good way to try what I am talking about that you can actually see. Have someone stand in front of your bike facing you with their knees on each side of the leading edge of the front wheel. The natural tendency for you to sit on the bike is to brace the bike with your legs to keep it from leaning. Ease up on this a bit to let the bike move a bit side-to-side. This is necessary so the the bike will lean a bit while sitting still.
Assume a comfortable riding posture. With your assistant holding the front wheel with his knees, press forward on the right hand-grip. You will notice the front wheel actually turning to the left and the motorcycle will lean to the right. Now try pressing on the left hand grip and you will see the wheel turning to the right and the motorcycle will lean to the left. This might take considerable pressure since you will have the tendency to keep the bike upright. That is why I say to relax your stance a bit to allow the bike to lean a bit. You can still keep the bike upright and let it lean some to see how it works.

OK, after initiating the lean by doing the press (while riding), the front wheel will turn ever so slightly in the opposite way you want to turn. Once you initiate the lean, without thinking you will ease off the press and the front wheel will follow the desired path of travel. More lean or turn - more press, less lean or turn - less press.

I really hope I haven't confused anyone on this. I have tried to keep it simple so it could be understood without screwing up your mind. Have you ever tried to "turn" the handlebars while running down the road at 60 MPH? If you expect it to turn in the direction you turn the handlebars, be prepared for a surprise.

Counter-steering works best at speeds above, say 15 MPH? The faster you go the more you notice it.

Now, for those that think that the procedure works just fine by "pushing down", there is as much difference in pushing down and pressing "forward" as there is in driving a car with manual steering and power steering. It is effortless and almost like a "thought" rather than an action.

Ride Safely,

Ed

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

SWERVE:

What is a swerve? The technical definition of a swerve is "Two consecutive counter-steers. One to initiate the swerve, the other to recover, or to straighten.

This is done somewhat like a Counter-steer by pressing the handlebars in the direction you want to go (See last post). What is the difference? In a Counter-Steer you lean with the motorcycle. In a Swerve, Motorcycle lean is independent of body lean. In other words, the motorcycle leans and you stay upright.

Sometimes it is more beneficial and takes less time and distance to do a SWERVE instead of a quick stop should something suddenly appear in your path of travel such as someone opening a car door or stepping out in front of you. It is all practice, practice, practice.

Ride Safely,

Ed

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

Thanks for posting that. I have to admit that I'm guilty of riding in a t-shirt and shorts...mostly on short trips and never over 45 MPH or so. Those pics will certainly make me think twice about doing that again.

 

All it takes is one crash and you'll always wear your gear. ALWAYS. Broken bones are one thing, broken bones PLUS multiple surgeries to pick gravel out of your back=lesson learned.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

Why is it that, when you drive up a hill? The car in the opposite lane always rides the center line. I always ride in the middle of the lane going up a hill to avoid getting clipped by a car too far over into my lane. This works driving a car too. Stay a bit over to the right side. Just in case. Ed you have lots of excellent points to survive on the road. If there are signs posted as for the speed to enter the curve. Slow down to it what the speed the sign says, before entering a curve. It will help tremendously.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

Hmmm... I would say only if you weren't familiar with the road. I know ours are a TAD (way) more conservative here in the States than yours (I ride in Ontario a lot your roads are better) but still a lot of those signs pass the Grandma test. There are a lot of "35mph" corners on my route to work that aren't worth slowing down for, cruising at 62mph.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

This brings up a good point that a lot of people don't know. The posted signs that are actually "Advisory" speeds at the beginning of a curve. These signs were actually designed for information of a fully loaded tractor trailer, or Semi truck if you prefer, for the maximum safe speed for them to go around a curve with the posted sign.
This doesn't mean that you should totally disregard the signs while driving a car or riding your bike. If you should disregard the signs you could possibly be picking corn cobs out of your shorts, or a few unmentionables.
Again, this is another judgment call that comes with experience and common sense.

 

Ed your point about the front wheel gyroscope reminded me of my RC motorcycle. In It's case the rear wheel is the gyroscope to maintain balance and it turns by a shifting weight. It is not obvious to most folks the effect that force has on the bike and it's actions.

By the way EXCELLENT posts on safety. Keep them coming.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

Bill,

When I mentioned the gyroscope effect, it would include either or both wheels. The spinning wheels both work with a gyroscope effect which helps to stabilize the bike. Were it not for that it would make balancing the bike MUCH more difficult.

 

When on the Talimena drive, and on the way home along HW82, I found the signs very useful. Not because I rode the posted speed, but because they gave me an idea of what to expect. I'm not sure I'll ever forget the sign on 82 (posted limit ~60) that said 15mph.

That was one heck of a turn. After entering it, I couldn't see the exit in my periphery vision, it was behind me.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

KD,

Excellent example! By using the "Advisory" signs it give you a pretty good idea on what is coming. It is highly advisable to pay close attention to these until you know the road like the back of your hand. And then, they should be kept in mind. About the time you become complacent, the curves will creep up and bite you.
I would like to know more about this "RFID" card.

 

I think Ed just taught me as much, if not more, in his posts than I learned in my safety course.

Paco insisted that I take that course before I ever rode. I wouldn't even register my bike until I had that certificate in my hand.
While the course taught me a great deal, there is only so much you can learn over a weekend. I know I'm inexperienced and I only ride on roads close to my home until I get a little more practice in.

 

hurst,
An RFID card does basicly the same thing a normal credit card does. The difference is that it does it via radio instead of a mag strip.

Some newer CCs have them.

One neat thing about RFID: you don't need batteries in the card, the reader hardware sends a radio pulse to power the card.

The great thing about RFID is you don't actually have to swipe it. Simply wave a new CC near a reader and it'll read. The read range is based on many things, including the reader hardware.

The RFID reader I just ordered has a 10cm (abt 4") read range. That is just about right to go through a motorcycle seat.

My plan is to have a toggle switch instead of a key switch (mounting location TBD). When you flip that switch a small microcontroller (16pin chip, search for PIC16F88) will enable the RFID reader. The reader will search for a card. If found, and the cards unique ID matches, the PIC will engage a relay. That relay simulates turning the key. The relay will stay on until the toggle switch is turned off (that way someone else can take the bike for a spin and not worry about killing it w/o the 'key', but only if you have 'unlocked it'). I'd likely add a timeout, where if the bike hadn't been running for 5min it would 'lock'.

If the card ID doesn't match it'll simply not 'turn on'.

I also have plans for a servo controller cruise control, but that depends on me building an electronic speedo/tach. But if I do THAT I can include an accelerometer and do all sorts of neat logging, tied in with speed and RPMs.


There are not enough hours in the day.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

After reading all the good ideas on safe riding one came to mind. I'm sure most of us have noticed the dark stain in the center of the lane at stop signs and lights. That stain comes from oil and trans fluid leaks in cars and is very slick, especially when it's wet. Not a good place for a hard stop. You can find yourself out in the intersection faster than you can say bunny!

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

Kd,
the card sounded like it might be an interesting idea, however, after thinking about it, if I have to flip a switch I might as well turn a key. One problem I see with the card, if you get off the bike it would stop running. I thought it might be something like the newer cars with the FOBs that you could just hit the starter button as long as you had it in your possession. I guess it is, kinda.

Dragonfly,
Good comment about the oil slick. I think it would be an excellent idea if the Mods would make a permanent posting area to do the safety topics so that it would not be so difficult to "SEARCH" for the information.
One thing that I am guilty of in my classes, I spend much more time explaining and making sure that the students understand all the information that is taught. We had a Chief instructor sat in one of my classes. Later he told me that I did an excellent job of conveying the information, as a matter of fact, too good. It is supposedly better to get through he class faster. This is true to an extent. I also spend more time on an individual basis helping the students that have difficulty "catching on" during breaks and lunch. BUT, I have only had one student that I have had to counsel out since I have been instructing. Not everyone is meant to ride a motorcycle, but if someone pays their money for the class and I see that they are truly trying, I make sure they get all that I can offer. I would not think very much of myself if I didn't.

 

tennsouthernbelle,

Thanks for the comment. I see you are from Morristown, close to my old home town Middlesboro, KY.

If anyone should want to hear my prospective on any topic to do with rider safety or technique please let me know.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

I totally agree and it's why I started this thread in the first place. However, since the idea seems to keep falling on deaf ears, please by all means keep up the safety lessons. I really appreciate it when a member posts an observation or tip and you expand on it. Thanks again for all your input it is quite valuable indeed.---Fitz

 

G'day all from Oz

Down here they use white painted arrows at intersections. My first debacle with these was on my old TT500E Yam back in the 80's. Had a big knobby tyre on the front and lost the front wheel in the rain on a corner, boy that paint is slippery. Ended up stacked on the median strip with a bent bike and a bruised ego. Could have been much worse. Stay off the white lines in the rain!

 

hurst,
It could work that way, and that was the original plan. Then I realized that it would stink to have someone take it for a ride and get stranded. Getting off the bike would not kill the bike, the card would only be checked at start.

I guess it would be better to tie it in with the kill switch (without a key you would be forced to use the kill switch, but are not likely to toggle the kill switch when it dies.).

Thanks for the input. Any one else have any thoughts? The more thought that gets put in at this stage will result in a much nicer solution.

iandmac,
I hate the row of painted lines near the toll both on the turnpikes. A few of them make me think I'm going to get bounced off the seat.

They are working on a turnpike near here, one that I use quite often (not on the bike lately, at least not until I get a new rear tire). For about a mile they force you to drive on the shoulder. This shoulder has ridges cut in it, perpendicular to the direction of travel, to alert you if you are about to go over the edge. The ridges are only a few feet wide, but I can't imagine what it would be like on a motorcycle to have to swerve to miss something in the road, only to end up on the ridges.

It seems like the DOT gives very little though to how these things (and rain grooved roads) affect motorcycles.

</rant>

 

Amen to that. The blasted grooved (or "combed") pavement seems to be growing in popularity and actually drives/limits my choices in tires. I have to avoid anything with a continuous center groove.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

<<BUMP>> OK fellow XJ-ers, it's springtime and the beginning of the end of winter layover, time to fire up the bike!

We've got a lot of folks new to the site, and new to motorcycling in general, and since we don't have (LISTENING, MODS???) a "safety" or "safe riding" FORUM (yet) we started this thread last summer.

If you're new here, and especially if you're new to motorcycling, take the time to read this whole thread.

LOTS of good advice in here, especially after member Hurst01 joined us. His MSF instructor experience is invaluable, and he posted QUITE a bit of very good information.

Experienced riders, let's hear your input!

Let's keep this thread lit up for a while, we could all use a safe riding refresher!

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

Thanks for the bump.It was a good refresher.We can all use all the help we can get.

 

One of the things that I brought up to my MSF instructor....much to his displeasure, I might add..........was concerning the following statistic from the HURT study:

25. Almost half of the fatal motorcycle accidents show alcohol involvement.

http://www.motorcyclesafetyinfo.com/hurt_study.html


I told him that without other information.....I was trying to give him an out! while also making what I thought was an EXTREMELY valid and important point......is that 50% (half or "almost half") of all motorcycle fatalities show the "involvement of alcohol", then that means that the other 50% do NOT show the involvement of alcohol (basic math), AND......

THAT MEANS YOU ARE JUST AS LIKELY TO DIE ON A MOTORCYCLE WHEN YOU'RE ALCOHOL-IMPAIRED AS WHEN YOU'RE STRAIGHT-UP SOBER!


The point being that if alcohol involvement...which should cause a decrease in performance and abilities, judgment, etc......is no more or no less to cause you to become a fatality, then it:

a) makes no difference whether your smashed or not, and more importantly.......

b) since you're just as likely to die when you're sober, that there must be OTHER SIGNIFICANT ISSUES at play as to WHY people are dropping like flies when they're sober, as well as when they're juiced.

THE POINT BEING is that the mental preparations, planning, judgment, fear, whatever that should be present when a person is sober can rightfully be concluded to be missing or non-existent----a person feels more "in control" on a bike when sober----and thus takes far more risks, not only in terms of speed, etc., but more likely in terms of feeling like the "other guy" is less likely to be a danger.

That perception, I believe, makes "the other guy" a HUGE danger, because that "other guy" now becomes YOU: your thoughts, outlooks, what you pay attention to, how careful or alert and conservative you are, etc.


I'm not, by any stretch, lobbying for drinking and driving in any type of vehicle, and since the presumption in the study is probably that people ride sober 90% of the time, and drunk only 10% of the time, yet 50% of the fatalities (and probably other occurrences) occur during that 10% of time/miles/rides (however it was measured), then the "alcohol involvement" is disproportionately represented in such situations.

BUT....that supposition may not be true. And if it isn't, or to what degree it isn't, may mask a much more important lesson besides the important "don't drink-and-drive" lesson that it seems to solely make.........

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

We've already had TWO member mishaps in '09, I figured we all needed to start thinking SAFE riding again.

One quick tip:

In your haste to pull the bike out on that first warm day, DID YOU CHECK THE AIR IN YOUR TIRES???

Extreme cold and/or extended sitting will cause pressure loss. You may not NOTICE it, a tire with only 18lbs in it LOOKS fine but sure isn't safe to ride on. Check them before every ride, especially if it still gets cold at night where you live.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

If I may quote the very next statistic,is it safe to assume that if the riders involved in the collisions where alcohol was a factor were not under the influence,maybe there would be no collision?

26. Motorcycle riders in these accidents showed significant collision avoidance problems. Most riders would overbrake and skid the rear wheel, and underbrake the front wheel greatly reducing collision avoidance deceleration. The ability to countersteer and swerve was essentially absent.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

Great advice Fitz.

I had always heard that the most given excuse from the cager was that they simply did not see the bike. I had read on another forum that a bike gets lost in a sea of white lights on the road which is why I replaced my clear auxillary light with an amber unit from e-bay. My buddy who lives 1/8 mile down the street noticed it immediately so a different color light might be something to consider.

On a similar "be seen" note. I went out and bought my garage helper a new helmet and as I was standing there paying for it he came up to the counter with a bright red mohawk for the top of it. We have been out a couple of times and I can tell you that people really notice it.

Be safe!

 

chacal,

I wonder are you missing a key perspective in your alcohol discussion? The key context to me is "what can you do to improve your chances?"

It may be that 50% of all fatal crashes show alcohol involvement (presumably the primary contributing cause). But the other 50% of fatal crashes are divided among a variety of primary causes.

What I take from this is that by eliminating alcohol from the equation, I have done one thing that improves my odds more than any other single act alone. Nothing else gives me as much bang for the buck. It requires no training, or special equipment, or special knowledge, or special practice, or special skills.

I am of course assuming a competent, experienced, rider with appropriate training. Without this assumption the risks take an entirely different direction.

Oh and SecaRob...that is one crazy helmet...wish I had the moxie to wear someting like that.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

Excellent bump Fitz, thanks. There was a post about the center of the lane being oily & slick when it rains, well take my word for it it aint jsut when it rains. The other night I was out for a ride, alittle dark out, stopped at a stop light, put my left foot down right in the middle of a small puddle of anti freeze I think. I like to busted my ash. It was all I could do to get that foot to stop sliding & keep the bike up. Just a tip, it is slick sometimes with no rain.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

Hey guys, WHOA! I was just trying to make a point about certain issues relating to non-alcohol causes of accidents (which are probably far more common than alcohol-related):

Also, although the wording is a bit vague, "alcohol involvement" may have IMPAIRED THE RIDER'S: judgement, vision, reflexes, abilities, etc., the alcohol itself (unless they pickeled their livers) was not the "cause" of the fatality. It's what the alcohol did (maybe) to the person that makes is a contributing factor; the primary cause of an alcohol-related accident can still be a low-side, high-side, locking the rear wheel, running a red light, other-driver-negligence, rear-ending a vehicle or being rear-ended, etc.


Just like when alcohol is not involved.


Although I hope it never happens to anyone, just imagine that you're driving down the road, and come across an accident scene involving a motorcycle fatality: was alcohol involved? Might a well toss a coin to make a guess, because 50% of the fatalities are NON-alcohol related.


Again, my point isn't to down-play the risks of impairment due to alcohol consumption before doing ANYTHING dangerous or risky, it's to rather point out that the RISKS associated with an inherently dangerous activity----like riding a motorcycle, especially in populated areas----can be vastly under-estimated by most people, and the statement that "50% of fatalities are alcohol-related" allows a certain sense of FALSE SECURITY to creep in amongst people.

I think that the false sense of security is the greater/greatest danger to most riders.........that's my point, sorry if I was un-clear!


And Artie, not to be argumentative, and again-----don't drink and drive!----but in the game of chance (will I die in a motorcycle accident?), the statistics say that whether you drink or don't drink MAKES NO DIFFERENCE as to whether you will become a fatality----that's what the raw numbers say. I realize that "common sense" (misnomer?) says "don't drink and drive, you'll be safer". THE NUMBERS TELL A DIFFERENT STORY, and I believe one of the main reasons is because people under-estimate, by a huge degree, the inherent risks in certain activities (biking, in this case) by a whopping margin, and that under-estimation can be a killer, too.

 

Everybody should read this thread before taking their bike out the first week, after that long winter break. Starting with page 1 till the end. It takes a few days to feel good and safe back in the saddle again. Started riding at 15 but after 53 yrs still take that first week cautiously.

 

chacal

Well, maybe I just can't hold my alcohol (which makes sense since I barely was ever a drinker and quit completely more years ago than I can remember) but I know I would be at much greater risk of an accident if I drove with any alcohol impairment whether in a vehicle or a motorcycle. So it would make a great difference for me.

I understand your points, and the math behind statistics, and agree generally with what you say. But statistics are funny things. You can show a statistical correlation between the use of air conditioners and hot days, but those statistics don't say if hot days cause the use of air conditioners or the use of air conditioners causes hot days. You apply judgement to determine cause and effect.

And for me, there would be a definite increase in my vunerability to an accident and probably a fatal one because I would be impaired in judgement, reaction time, skills, and probably would push envelopes or ignore envelopes I otherwise wouldn't.

Think of my comments as less of a counterpoint and more of a "friendly addition" to the debate.

I don't want to hijack this thread or distract from other good points so I'll halt my discussion on this particular sub-thread with this post.

Oh, and I know you weren't trying to promote drinking and driving...I never had that impression.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

I am going to throw my 2 cents in here. Probably before I was born, my Dad told me that he used to ride motorcycles. I remember him telling me that one of the quickest ways you could sober up was get on a motorcycle with the wind blowing in your face.
This is the aptitude of someone justifying drinking and driving. It may make you THINK that you are sobering up, but in reality you are possibly causing an undue mishap or fatality. If the statistics show that 50% of all motorcycle fatalities are alcohol related, then that means to me that 50% of fatalities MAY NOT have happened if they had been sober in stead of intoxicated. By being intoxicated the rider has a false sense of his skill or abilities, when in reality he has his reflexes and judgment impaired to a degree that he feels he is as safe as anyone else.
Do people think that motorcycling is dangerous? Yes it is. There are enough dangers facing the motorcycle rider when they are sober. Another way to look at it is that by not drinking while riding INCREASES your chances of NOT being in a fatal accident by 50%.
We have all heard the saying that friends don't let friends drive drunk. I hate being around a drunk. I used to drink a big time. My wife told me that she would never marry a person that drank. I told her that I would quit and I did. She meant more to me than a drink. It amazes me that some really nice guys want to fight when drunk. Rather than argue with an intoxicated rider, there is a simple solution.
I am sure that every one on here has seen a carpenters pencil. They are flat and about 1/2" wide. You can take the spark plug boot off and with a carpenters pencil, draw a line from the metal tip of the plug to the base of the plug and reinstall the spark plug wire boot. The lead in a carpenters pencil is a much softer graphite than in a typical lead pencil. It will ground the spark for the plug and the bike will not start. It is a simple matter to take your thumb and wipe the graphite from the plug and the bike will then start. This will not hurt the ignition system, but it could save a life.
We can all quote statistics all day. The fact is that by driving alcohol impaired, you are putting us all at risk.

 

Thank you. Exactly why I "bumped" it back onto everyone's radar. I've been riding on the street ever since I got my license at 16, but still feel "rusty" for a week or two every spring.

I recommend at least one or two "shakedown runs" (if possible) before tackling heavy (freeway) traffic again. Got to get all the senses back on line before pushing them to 110%.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

Just to throw my 2 cents in... As far as statistics are concerned I would probably agree with those.... the one thing that those statistics don't really show is the % of people who drive while under the influence... since none of the other risks change. It all averages out in other words... I would hazard to guess (WAG TIME... or wild a#Q guess) that at any given time 90% of the motorcycle riders are sober, at certain times of day this changes (like at closing time for the local bars) but statistically if you average it out through out the days and weeks and even the hours of the day. 90% of the drivers are sober, but that 10% is involved in 50% of the fatal accidents. I think that puts that in proper perspective. Or if you don't want to do the time averaging. (for those of you that drink and ride) compare the amount of time (miles) that you ride sober compared to ride drunk, toss in the number of people that don't drink and drive at all and you will see that my guess of 90% is probably accurate.... maybe even on the low side... I think this demonstrates how alcohol increases your chance to get killed... I think of it this way....

I have done my share of drinking, I have never noticed a decrease in reaction time... (I know there is one, but never noticed it while intoxicated) I have noticed that when I get intoxicated I lose my balance and stumble etc... while in a cage this doesn't matter on a bike one of the key skiils neccesary is balance.... while not as bad as when intoxicated I am sure 1 drink can effect my balance (just not as bad) therefore drunk driving on a bike is suicide.... (and I am not proud to admit it but I have done it....) I quit all drinking a few years ago.... I found that I have a allergy to alcohol... when I drink I have a tendancy to break out in a rash.... a rash of handcuffs.


Ron

 

I'm still a noob when it comes to riding. I hope to enjoy this for as long as some of you here. One thing I still have in my Bathroom reading collection ( i don't know what you have, but a lot of people read on the toilet) is a copy of my motorcycle rider safety book. I read it at least once a week. I used to think that people that reved their bikes at stop lights were just showing off. Maybe some are. But it calls attention "I'M HERE", BEHIND YOU, NEXT TO YOU< ACROSS FROM YOU...etc. I try remembering to do that every now and then. Not furiously of course. I have a black jacket, black helmet and black gloves. I am surely going to add some reflective tape on my helmet this weekend. and be in search for another jacket ASAP.

 

NY state law requires 4 square inches of reflective material on the helmet.

 

Really. That is way cool, do they specify WHERE? You could get to 4 sq/in with a thin stripe if it wrapped around, but it's still a good idea.

I assume that means you also have a law REQUIRING helmets, also a good idea since there are apparently still people on the planet DUMB enough to ride without one.

My Tourmaster jacket is black but it has reflective stripes/panels all over it.

 

xulf : "I used to think that people that reved their bikes at stop lights were just showing off. "

i am guilty of both showing off and calling atention if it were legal i would have my entire bike chrome. there are lots of idiots that drift across the dotted line and regularly ignore your presence on the road.... i have been seen riding the right side of the lane next to the dotted line right next to a car that was just drifting into me .... drop a gear or two to drown out their cell phone conversation that they were more into then preventing killing another driver.... so your asking your self what are you thinking midnight? the look on their face explains it all they have this overy exaggerated (WTF) look on their face and move to the other side of their lane. especially if your headig down into a corner side by side.... i have been also seen getting off the bike at a stop and chewing butt of another driver .... i dont like the idea that these people go around oblivious to bikes and nobody ever makes an impression on them.

 

With respect to the reflective material...Cycle Gear sells what they call a Helmet Halo.

http://www.cyclegear.com (search on helmet halo)

Adds a lot of visibility to your helmet at night. I don't have one...just saw it for the first time last night. Will probably get one.

 

That would be a PITA for me, I have a modular helmet ...

I am thinking about putting a number of LEDs on my bike running on a separate 10A circuit.

There is also a blade shaped stick-on light for helmets that I am probably going to get.

 

I have fantasies of carrying a paintball gun loaded with quick dry enamel florescent pink paint ... not just for the motorcycle, but a mounted on on the car too.

 

I miss informed you I looked it up and this is what my manual said.

"All motorcycle operators and passengers must wear approved motorcycle helmets as defined by USDOT federal motor vehicle safety standards (FMVSS 218). To improve the motorcyclist's visibility, we recommend that helmets have at least four square inches of reflective material on both sides."

Still a good idea.

 

Chacal my friend, I think you might have mis-understood the statistic. 50% of fatal accidents involve alchohol. It appears that you are assuming that the alchohol was consumed by the rider. From what I take from the study you quoted is that alcohol was involve by either the rider or the driver of the other vehicle.

If a car driver is impaired they may not make safe turns, lane changes, etc but if the rider is stone cold sober they might stand a chance of avoiding the accident.

Conversely, if the rider is impaired then the chances of being able to avoid an idiot move by a driver, impaired or sober, would be significantly lowered.

It would seem that the rate of injury/death for riders would go up significantly after cosuming intoxicants.

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

midnightblu,

. "i have been also seen getting off the bike at a stop and chewing butt of another driver."


Not a good idea, my friend. We had a guy locally that got off his bike to chew a woman out for riding his rear, She shot him in the chest with a .38.
NEVER a good idea to confront someone like that. You might wind up meeting someone more weird than you. :lol:

 

Amen, hurst01. I'm a LOT more mobile on my bike than off it. A bike will lose against a cage, any cage, if push comes to shove (like getting shoved into cross traffic when you step off at a light). "Fight or flight" is a strong natural drive.

Disengage, cool off, move on with life.

 

Since i started riding ( past week ) after my injury, i have had 1 person try to share my lane with me. ( Was riding in far left side of my lane, preparing to make a left turn with my 7 yr old on the back. Then 2 days later, a lady pulls out infront of me as I turn onto my street.

I wear a WHITE Scorpion EXO ( Camelon paint ) and my Icon Mil Spec vest ( Active duty requirements ) So i am pretty sure they can see my Neon Yellow! I never ride without my vest.

Buddy of mine ( also in the military ) rides about the same way, he keep s a 2 ft piece of rebar in the "blivit " of his R1.. ( Basically the blivit is about 2- 2liter bottles length and size, custom built, Looks sick. )

 

Re: Be The Bunny! Safe riding and motorcycle survival threa

I just received my Joe Rocket gear today.I got a decent deal on e-bay for a Meteor 6.0 jacket and Ballistic 7.0 pants.They seem very well made.Anybody else ride with Joe Rocket?