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Bike doesn't start in cold weather

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by Joshua Olkowski, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. fiveofakind

    fiveofakind Well-Known Member

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    You do not have a problem with your charging system
     
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  2. Joshua Olkowski

    Joshua Olkowski Member

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    Okay
     
  3. JetmechMarty

    JetmechMarty Active Member

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    My XS650 and XS1100 have everything running through the KILL SWITCH. If there's a voltage drop there, the spark gets weak, the current to the charging rotor goes low and so does alternator output. Have a look at your wiring diagram.
     
  4. Colin 85 700

    Colin 85 700 Active Member

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    I agree with everything said above, however, a quality battery should have 12.7-13.2 Volts fully charged, therefore it should be impossible to have 12V at idle unless your battery is weak.
    Be sure you have a quality battery NOT from Walmart!
    Also the new AGM and maintenance free Optima style battery's won't charge right in old bikes... Don't ask me why.
    My XJ the headlight dims slightly at idle, so they do have weak charge.
    These bikes are screamers, 9000RPM and even cruising you should be running 3000+ RPM in any gear.
    Mine turns 4500 on the highway, so provided you get 13.5+V somewhere around 3000, your battery is charging while you ride.
    Hope this helps :)
     
  5. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    ...Or you're running the bike at idle long enough to draw the battery down. That's easy to do if the high beam is on, aux light is on (750 only), or you have accessories running. Running it to synch the carbs will draw battery voltage down by quite a bit. Even starting the thing can drop the battery below 12 volts in cold weather.


    Also, my garden tractor battery is from WalMart (store brand). A 5 year battery that I've been using for 7 years. I wouldn't put one of theirs in my motorcycle, but I use them in everything else.


    Also, also, I use an AGM battery in my XJ. It charges perfectly fine (you may be thinking of LiPo batteries, most of which now do charge fine in older vehicles, but earlier ones did not).


    It's only been very recently (about 15 years) that vehicle charging systems have been built to charge the battery at idle. As the electrical demand at idle has increased due to all the fancy gagets we have now, the ability to charge at idle has become necessary.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
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  6. Joshua Olkowski

    Joshua Olkowski Member

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    So, it's possible that the connection at the kill switch is weak but is still functionable? I have actually taken it apart once to install a new starter button and I remember it looking okay in there but it's worth the voltage drop test. I'll check it out.
     
  7. Joshua Olkowski

    Joshua Olkowski Member

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    A lot of this seems to be almost personal opinion then anything. Some people are telling me no XJ charges at idle. Others are saying charging at idle is a new thing. The manual clearly says it should be at 13.5 at idle and mine clearly isn't. What's interesting is that it does go up to about 14.5 at 5000rpms which is basically in spec but once it hits idle again it's back down to 12 and this is with a freshly charged battery that's brand new! I'm just not sure anymore. I recently cleaned all the connections with a vinegar/salt solution and then followed it with a baking soda/water solution (works great btw and you can see the wires sizzle. cool)and I must say that charging improved slightly at the higher rpm's. So again, I wonder if changing out the stator or RR is the logical next step.
     
  8. a100man

    a100man Well-Known Member

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    Seems to me that it's there or thereabouts. If all the relevant contacts are cleaned thoroughly and reassembled with dielectric grease you've done the best you can. Getting hung up on a few 100 revs ain't worth it in my opinion. But then I can be a lazy sod at times.
     
  9. fiveofakind

    fiveofakind Well-Known Member

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    Joshua,

    As I stated before, you do not have a problem with your charging system. Do not replace the stator nor the R/R unless you like wasting money.....

    Don't fix what''s not broken.
     
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  10. Chitwood

    Chitwood Well-Known Member

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    Watching the voltmeter on my 650 that I have installed on my handlebars, at idle I get battery voltage or just very slightly above. As soon as the revs come up, the voltage goes right with it. At cruising rpm its charging between 14-14.5 volts. Near as I can tell this is normal and I've not noticed any adverse effects from it.
     
  11. fiveofakind

    fiveofakind Well-Known Member

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    Chitwood, what you are describing is exactly normal....
     
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  12. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    Where in the world did you find that method? the salt/vinegar solution went right to the crimp and wicked up the conductors past the insulation, now it's in there corroding the wires. no the baking soda didn't neutralise all of it.

    sounds to me like you won't be happy until you buy some parts, so that's what you should do
     
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  13. JetmechMarty

    JetmechMarty Active Member

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    Dielectric grease is an insulator. Why would you do that? Keep that stuff away from me! :eek:
     
  14. fiveofakind

    fiveofakind Well-Known Member

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    You are funny.

    Have you ever done stand-up comedy.....& don't reply with " No...you only do it sitting down"
     
  15. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    The grease gets scrubbed off from the parts that are making contact when the connectors are hooked up. Applying it is SOP in machine maintainance (my prior career). Keeps the corrosion and oxidation at bay for a very long time.
     
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  16. Joshua Olkowski

    Joshua Olkowski Member

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    Please explain why you say this. Isn't it not working properly if I'm barely hitting 12volts at idle?
     
  17. Joshua Olkowski

    Joshua Olkowski Member

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    I found it right here on this site:
    http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-perfectly-clean-wires-in-minutes
     
  18. fiveofakind

    fiveofakind Well-Known Member

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    Joshua,

    I will run the test on my '82 XJ750J Maxim tomorrow for you.

    Parameters will be Battery Voltage at:

    1. Rest
    2. During cranking
    3. At idle after warm up
    4. At 3,000 rpm
    5. At 5,000 rpm

    My bike is dialed in.......so we will see the results.......if similar to your resilts.....will find that acceptable ??
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  19. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Charging does not occur at idle. Your system passes the tests for measuring charging voltage.
    If you wish to change all the charging system components for new that is your perogative, but the money would be better spent elsewhere.

    1. Both of your first statements are true, and both are saying the same thing. The charging system on your motorcycle was not meant to charge the battery at idle, precicely because the typical load on the electrical system does not require that the battery be charged at idle, and because it is quite uncommon for a motorcycle to be left at idle for an extended period of time.

    2. Which manual are you using? There are several known errors in each of the three manuals that were published (Yamaha, Clymer, and Haynes).
    The spec that you quote is not correct.

    From:
    the-information-overload-hour.27544
    A link that I know you were provided with at least once.

    Charging System Tests:

    a) Adjust voltmeter to DC volts (20 volt range).

    b) Place voltmeter leads to the battery terminals (positive to positive and negative to negative).

    c) Start the engine.

    d) Bring engine up to approximately 2,500 rpm's.

    e) Compare the voltage reading to the specification given below:

    For all XJ-series models, the maximum available charging output VOLTAGE should be as follows (all values are approximate):

    * approximately 500-2000 rpms: 12.6 volts gradually increasing to 14.2 volts
    * 2000+ rpms: 14.2 volts up to about 14.8 volts, with a maximum of 14.8 volts (all models except XJ700-X and XJ750-X)
    * 3000+ rpms: 14.2 volts up to about 14.8 volts, with a maximum of 14.8 volts (all XJ700-X and XJ750-X)
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
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  20. fiveofakind

    fiveofakind Well-Known Member

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    If you are going to spend the money on a new stator and R/R , then make sure you buy a very expensive voltmeter......you dont want any bogus readings from a free Harbor Freight one....

    Just a bit of humor here......no malice intended
     
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