broken engine!! :(

It has been some time since I had to worry about this, but to fill in where I can:
the large square one (oil pan?)Yes
there are 4 of the round copper color ones, what are they? Sorry - not sure which ones I'm meant to be looking at - not the exhaust pipe gaskets 6-7mm thick and 30-32mm across ?
the 8 tall green ones? Valve guide seals
there are 4 of the flat round one with with little wings (intake?) Could be - I was going to say camchain adjuster, but not if you have 4 of them (my 550 has rubber inlets
the 2 tall black rubber one those i recognize from under the head.
the 4 large rubber o-rings? Not sure - two i would have said the starter motor - I'm not doing very well at this..
all of the other small o-rings, 2 red ones, 2 larger one and 2 really small ones? Check around the YICS system
and the 2 (green and grey) flat gaskets? Crankshaft end covers - one over the pick-ups and the other blank.

Realistically - pay attention as it comes apart - there are o-rings needed along with the head gasket that you will see as you take the head off (you have it off already, don't you - do a dry run and see if you can see where they are all used.)

EDIT @ CaptainKirk - you're right - I looked at the EBay page and he bought it without the cams, so I'd either use the plastigauge or lightly oil it and check they turn by hand.

 

Greg is right on the copper exhaust gaskets.

 

See if this image helps. I forgot that there are o-rings around the barrel skirts
http://www.powersportspro.com/pages/OemParts?aribrand=YAM#/Yamaha/XJ550H_-_1981/CYLINDER_XJ550H_J_K/XJ550H_%281981_MOTORCYCLE%29/CYLINDER_XJ550H_J_K_%28XJ550H_-_1981%29

 

yup most if not all of the o-rings go under the head, didnt notice them at first because they stuck to the underside of the old when when i removed it. should i bring the valve guide seals with the head to the shop when it gets lapped? i hate for them to have ti all apart and not put fresh part in there, or have them buy parts that i already have.

thanks for the image Greg it helped alot!

 

Get the shop to install the seals when they put the valves back in. Once the springs and valve collets (collets are pairs of wedges that keep the spring-retaing-cap in place) are on you won't be able to get them - the shop would be expecting you to have them.

 

ok ive been doing a lot of reading (and watching different videos) on how to do the valves and i think i am going to attempt it myself; by first trying to remove the springs on the broken head just in case something goes arry. it will be good to have some practice too and see how it all goes together/apart. got the next two days off to figure it out, wont have the money to bring it to a shop for a few weeks anywho, so might as well see if i am capable of doing it before i spend the cash on something i could do myself. i'll update more as i continue. wish me luck!

 

is there a "home remedy" for cleaning the block? i could soak it in some sort of cleaner once i get it all disasembled. its not super dirty but i figure since its off i might as well make it look nice too. isnt there some sorta electro-somthing-or-other that can be done? id just trying to think of things to keep me busy. i already cleaned off the oil pan and exhaust.

 

For a home remedy a can of engine decreased and a tooth brush have always worked for me or if you have access to a large enough ultrasonic. If your thinking of electrolisis where you submerge said part in a conducive solution and hook up a battery charger. That only works on ferrous materials. Ie: steel and cast iron

 

Maybe i missed it in the replies, but MAKE SURE TO NOTE---there are two thick flat copper washers, and they are to go on the head as you bolt the engine together. Make sure to note which side of the head they go on. They are specific to those two studs.......

Dave F

 

there are 4 of the round copper color ones, what are they? The 4 copper gaskets inside the square oil pan gasket are the exhaust outlet gaskets.
the 8 tall green ones? Valve stem seals
there are 4 of the flat round one with with little wings (intake?) correct
the 4 large rubber o-rings? Cylinder base o-rings
and the 2 (green and grey) flat gaskets? green= generator cover, grey= timing cover.

Just a note about the cam chain: If you happen to let the chain fall loose of the crankshaft. You can remove the oil pan to guide it back into place.

Ghost

 

Josh, just about any type of solvent & brush will work to get the majority of the gunk off there. You might experiment on your broken head to see what works or not.

 

someone on here did a nice job with eastwood's 2K ceramic paint.....

 

Update! valves on the new head have been lapped, valve seals have been replaced and its ready to be reinstalled.... right after i order some parts from chacal lol. all in all the process wasn't to scarey. i practiced removing and reinstalling the valves and springs on the old head yesterday, and then this morning went and bought some grinding compound and did it for real on the new head. only took me a few hours to complete.
a shot of the valves before and after some cleaning, and this wasn't even the worst one! (this is before i lapped them, just after cleaning off the carbon)

old and new valve seals

i could not find anywhere that had a spring compressor to rent out and i didnt have the money to buy one, nor did i really want to, so i made my own! a 6" C-clamp and a 2" piece of pvc pipe with a notch cut out works really well! the notch allows you to get in there and place the keepers while the spring is depressed. and it didnt cost me a thing!


everything has been tested and nothing leaks, now im waiting for the new parts so i can reinstall it, measure for shim clearances again and get it all back together so i can then go back to my original issue of it not starting....

 

by golly you're a MacGyver.... Good Job!!!!

 

Josh: do one more thing. If the replacement head DID NOT come with cams and you're using yours, please take the additional time to "Plastigauge" the cam-to-journal clearances. It should be fine, but if it isn't you're going to build a grenade and not know it until it lets go.

If you're unclear on the process I can send you scans from the factory manual. Or go to the Plastigauge website: http://www.plastigaugeusa.com/how.html

A good machine shop will usually give you a 6" or 8" "hunk" which is plenty; or you can order the "retail pack" directly from Plastigauge for a whopping $8.25 http://www.jhps.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Sc ... ry_Code=PL

Speaking of manuals: if you're working with only the Clymer, please PM me with your email address so I can get you the relevant pages (head re-installation and cam installation/timing) from the FACTORY book to go along with the sadly weak Clymer book. Slow down long enough to get these pages in-hand before proceeding.

By the way, the PVC-pipe valve spring compressor looks remarkably like the real kind you need for these tiny, buried valves. Good job.

 

i still see motor oil and little chunkies in on the head. so i have to wonder how you got all the valve grinding compound out ?
maybe there's other ways but i usually give it a real good squirt out with the garden hose before i start putting it back together

 

i do have a factory manual, at least i think i do (i dont look at the cover much, lol) i will investigate the plasitgauging because i am reusing my old cams.

thanks on the compliment son the PVC compressor, it worked super awesome, and it only popped off once. but i had the PVC laying around and i borrows the clamp from a friend. the clamp cost $8 at autozone, that amount of pvc would probably be less that $1 so its a compressor for under $10. although i wouldve liked it to be wider PVC just to be able to get in there and position the keepers a bit better, but needle nose pliers worked pretty well. the only thing i had to buy was the grinding compound!

 

READ the factory book. More than once, carefully, BEFORE you put the head back on. Starting on page 3-31, on through 3-33. VERY IMPORTANT stuff in there, if ignored spells disaster.

Use of Plastigauge for measuring the cam clearances is on page 3-16, along with the specified clearances.

DON'T RUSH reassembly. It will only lead to tears. Follow the (factory) book to the letter; if you have the Clymer it just helps "fill in" some things.

ASK QUESTIONS. We don't want to see you go through all of this and have the mill frag on you the first time you wind it past 8K rpm.

 

ok i read over the manual (yamaha factory) pages about the cams; so if i understand it correctly the plastigauge will tell me if my cams should be replaced or not, due to clearance measurements, true or false?

And ive read the installation pages as well and will read them over again, while i wait for my other parts to come in

and heres an interesting question that my wife had for me wife i was lapping the valves. she asked why is it important that the valves dont leak? what damage could occur from leaky valves. i told her i dont know exactly but its never a good things when leak, lol. any one care to enlighten her... and me?

 

Sure. Leaking valves do the following:
1) Lower your compression readings (duh!)
2) Cause you to run higher EGT's (exhaust gas temps)
3) Cook your brand-new valve seals
4) Coke the oil on your valve stems causing stuck open valves....that means being kissin' cousins with a piston dome down the road and = grenaded motor
5) Leakage past the valve face will erode and burn the valve and seat, making a small leak bigger.
6) Leaking intakes will cook your carb innards and manifold rubbers, cause backfires and other assorted mayhem.
Heard enough?
The way to check if your valve lapping job is good is:
1) There should be an even gray ring around both the seat and valve face
2) Lay your head on a level table, valve heads up. Fill each combustion chamber with stoddard solvent, let sit 5 minutes. There should be no solvent leakage through either intake or exhaust port. If so, lap them again until they don't leak (I usually do this before I reassemble the springs and keepers)
I did like you on the PVC/C-clamp on the last head I did...after doing all 16 valves I said NEVER AGAIN! and ordered a real valve spring compressor.

 

Leaking valves let the magic power pixies escape.

 

ok so update on the progress, which it indeed is, so got all the valves lapped, i relapped a few of them after i retested and noticed some leaks. new valve seals installed. plastigauged. and today i got my parts from chacal (thank you!) so it was time to install the new head which thankfully, with some help from my wife, went fairly smooth; other than the head getting stuck a few times on one of the little metal sleeves that didnt want to sit properly. but now the new head is on and secure, following the direction of the factory manual. cams are on and caps are secure. but i can not go any further because i need to rotate the cams to line up the dots with the arrows but i dont have a wrench large (or small) enough to rotate them. none of my adjustables go large enough to fit are the cam and the wrench needs to be fairly small in size because the frame is in the way, it wouldn't be an issue if the motor was off the frame like it is in the book. so it should be a bit of an interesting day tomorrow trying to position my cams.

but i am happy to just have the new head on, im making progress and now its visible! and i can finally starting picking up all the parts laying around my garage, lol

i now also have a nice work bench and cabinets in my garage thanks to TeddyTedTed who brought them to me instead of putting them on the curb for any joe schome to pick them up! nothing fancy but its nice to have a work space and storage space there now.

 

You're gettin' there!

 

UPDATE: cams finally installed! chain is on and everything lines up. so i filled it back up with oil (i had planned on taking the oil pan off but could not remove all the bolts) and measured shim clearances. now thankfully i was smart and made note of what shim sizes i put in before i got everything installed, so i wouldnt have to go through the hassle of pulling them out to see their sizes. there wasnt any sorta rhyme or reason for the size of shim i put where it was just kinda what i had, figured i had to measure them all anyways. so here is where i am with with shim measurements.

Ex
265 275 275 285
In
280 270 280 275

Ex
.152 .051 .038 .038
In
.051 .051 .038 .063

so just checking with every one else here on what i believe needs to be replaced in what position...

Ex
260 260 260 270
In
270 260 270 270

does this look right? im just using the chart from the book.

 

Which book?

Some books have the chart incorrect.

Dave F

 

im using the Yamaha factory manual, but i was actually using the chart from a print out of bigfitz shim write up.

 

Nice doood, you're getting close! I can't wait until this moves out of the "broken engine!! " thread and back into a "getting it running" closely followed by a "got it running.. now what?" sort of thread! :lol:

I didn't have time to double check your shim calculations but I'll see if I can get to it a little later.

Yeah buddy!

 

Im finally back to where i was before i started this thread, lol. now just waiting to order some shims, after i come back from my vacation this week and then get back to figureing out the electrical issue.

thanks for letting me borrow the wrench!