CLUTCHES 101-Part 1: the 400/550/600s with pics

Are you sure the pressure plate is properly oriented to the clutch hub? There is a dot cast into the pressure plate that has to align with a dot cast into the clutch hub. If not properly aligned, you could be getting a side-load on that one bolt that is breaking it. The pressure plate will "fit" if incorrectly positioned; but it doesn't really fit right.

 

I'm putting these bolts in at 7.2 ft./lbs. everything is oriented correctly as far as I can tell. The dots are lined up and everything fit snugly back into place.

 

Good news, though those problems were present in the bolts going back on everything started and operated very well!

 

Thanks a ton, bigfitz. Great instructions and photos. This was my first clutch job ever and it worked perfectly on my first attempt. You are the man!

 

After tightening the 5 bolts on the pressure plate, should the pullrod with teeth still be loose and be able to turn freely inside the pressure plate? Thanks in advance

**EDIT: update 8pm. EST: To answer my own question, I think the pullrod should be loose beneath the pressure plate because the manual(s) as well as your How-To thread here doesn't refer to aligning the pullrod in the correct direction before tightening the pressure plate. So after dinner I finished re-assembling the clutch (entire different assembly) and now it rides & shifts smoothly. I'll update my own thread later this evening after I get the first ride of this season outta the way!!! **]

 

Not only should the pullrod be free to rotate, it should pretty much "flop about" in the pressure plate until it gets "picked up" (and guided by) the bore in the cover.

 

Bigfitz, what do you recomend for a torque wrench?

 

Adding-in my experience; my seca came w/ PO installed barnett clutch pack, which has no boss spring. they we VERY worn out when I got it. They used the original plain plates though, so maybe without the full set it needs the boss spring?? Anyhow I ordered one as my new clutches have the one larger ID friction plate. I think the vibration dampening sounds like a pretty logical theory for it's purpose, it's not very strong for much else...

Also I've seen many other bikes which all have similar springs, but usually between each set of plates (instead of just one or 2 in the middle) to help them evenly split up and lubricate at idle. Also the tabbed plates or similar mechanisms i've seen in other clutches to help spread the fluid and prevent overheating and glazing, to have them all unevenly spaced moves fluid around better.

Deep Thoughts.

 

So what if you can't get the clutch to engage at all? I haven't opened it up yet, but last time I ran the bike, I noticed a little bit of creep with the clutch engaged. Now when I try to go into first, it jumps forward and stalls as if I didn't have the clutch engaged at all. Did I manage to fuse the friction plate or something?

 

Hey man,,
how do you like this new forum.. I am digging it man !

 

The exploded view shows a wire clip, clutch plate, and spring seat on the hub.
The first photo I've quoted looks like you might be able to see a clutch plate and spring seat; the next photo (with the assembly propped up on a screwdriver) doesn't look like there's a spring seat. I haven't taken mine apart yet, but was wondering where to look for the spring seat. Is it hidden between the hub and the clutch plate?

The online parts diagrams show a separate seat plate (8) and clutch boss spring (9), in addition to the plain clutch plate (10) and wire clip ring (11).


Fitz, I trust you more than the books or online catalog... can you clear this up before I start wrenching?

 

That looks to me like it is the diagram for the Euro spec 550. What Fitz wrote is for the US spec.

 

I have a '82 650. I am attempting to replace the Friction Plates and the Clutch Plates. After reassembly, I started my bike. Rev'ed it up a couple of times and heard the sound of stuff breaking. I immediately shut her down.

I removed the cover and found that all the pressure plate bolts were bent or broken, springs were a mangled mess, the clutch and pressure plate were destroyed and the inside of the cover was damaged.

I assumed I had tightened the pressure plate way too much ( I didn't have access to a torque wrench). So I jumped on Ebay and ordered a used clutch boss and pressure plate. All the clutch and friction plates survived.

I reassembled again, but didn't tighten the pressure plate near as tight as I had previously. Started my bike again. Didn't hear the breakage noise but the clutch was very noisy and I didn't have any pressure on the hand lever when I tried to engage the clutch. Shut the thing down again, removed the cover, and the clutch boss and pressure plate were completely destroyed again.

Sooooooooo, here I go again. Parts came in yesterday. Clutch Boss in installed, Pressure Plate is on, Compression Springs and bolts are installed but hand tight only( you can still spin the springs). Oh....."The Dots are Aligned", as they were on the previous attempts.

My question is on how to tighten the compression springs and pressure plate. I did invest in a cheap torque wrench but I have to compress the spring entirely before my torque wrench starts to read anything. Is that correct? It doesn't seem to leave much room for the push rod to pull the pressure plate away.

I've screwed it up twice........I am tired of experimenting.....LOL! Starting to get expensive. Thanks...

 

Good god. I can imagine how gut-wrenching and tear-inducing that must have been.

I can only speak from my own recent experience of rebuilding the clutch. When I assembled the plates, they had been drenched in oil for over 24 hours, along with the springs, bolts, washers, and throw out bearing. Supposedly a few hours would suffice, but I went for overkill. Like you said, my dots were aligned. When I put the bolts in, I too hand-tightened first, but in star formation. Then I did ten ratchet turns on each bolt in star formation until it met with a change in the resistance, so that it was slowly compressing evenly. Then I torqued each one in the same star formation. Then I gasketed her up and torqued the cover on in as close to star formation as I could get with those bolts.

Now, I don't have years of experience as a mechanic nor any formal training, but after reading what your clutch went through, I'd be asking the wizards here if you need to replace more than just the stuff that's visibly busted. I'd be worried about the baskets and a few other things that don't get replaced in a standard rebuild.

 

Oh, and you did put oil back in before starting it up, right? Hate to ask stupid questions, but it's important to rule that stuff out. Like when the tech support guy asks if the computer is plugged in.

 

Yeah, I did re-fill with oil. Coated all the plates in oil, too. I know it was too tight the first time, and I am pretty sure too loose the 2nd time, the reason I am saying that is because I hand tightened the botls until the springs wouldn't turn without effort then I torqued each bolt down only 4 turns.

I am going to try your procedure tomorrow. I know the plates have to separate to shift. I just don't know how much, evidently not much. thanks Bald Wonder for the response

 

Anyone have a torque spec for the clutch cover bolts? I can't find it in my non-Yamaha manual for my 550. My Maxim-X manual says 8.7 ft-lb. Fitz, maybe you could add this detail in your write-up?

 

I think it's 7.2, but check the XJ4ever catalog. I think it lists the specs for everyone.

 

Good call. XJ4Ever says 7.2. My bolts are 20% tight. I think I'll leave them as is now that they're tightened.

 

Tighten them to the correct torque, and use new bolts. You do not want the clutch coming apart again.

 

I was talking about the ten clutch cover bolts, not the five bolts on the pressure plate. You'd remove and replace them?

 

I would, but often don't. Just plan on using new ones the next time. They are meant to be a consumable item, just like connecting rod bolts. I missed that you were talking about the clutch cover screws.

 

Next oil change I'll swap them out.

 

SIGH...Fitz hasn't been on in ages... Life has gotten in the way.

 

Should I be able to rotate the inner basket freely by hand if all plates are removed on my 83 XJ 750 maxim?

 

If you're in neutral, yes. I believe the inner basket drives the rear wheel through the transmission, so if you're on the center stand you can turn it and see the rear wheel move. Counter-clockwise turned my 700X wheel forward, if I recall.

 

I'm trying to remove the clutch boss and hub on my xj550. The locking tab on the clutch nut is straightened out and my problem is the clutch nut will not loosen. I've got a set of extra plates riveted together to use as the holding tool to keep the clutch hub from turning, however, the entire hub turns (causing the transmission to turn and rotate the rear tire) even when I'm using long leverage with ratchet to loosen the clutch nut. Any suggestions? it is right-hand threads correct? Does the transmission need to be in neutral for this removal process?

 

Did you rivet together a plain plate and a fiction plate, or was it just two plates of the same type? Your tool has to engage both the inner and outer baskets in order to keep them from turning.

 

Yeah, I'm smart enough to know that lol. I've done this before (bigfitz was kind enough to send me the extra plates last time I did this, free of charge) and I've been around the block with these bikes. My "message count" just doesn't portray it.

The clutch boss and hub are turning together, slowly, with each momentum I give the rachet to try to break the center nut loose. I don't have an impact wrench but can acquire one by the end of the week. Just thought I'd ask for any other pointers. Thanks in advance

 

Everyone has brain farts. As a former machine maintenance tech who trained other machine maintenance techs I made my fair share, even though I was smart enough to know better


OK. I misread your post as only the inner basket was turning.
Put it in gear and step on the rear brake pedal to help with holding the clutch basket still.
If you have access to either an eletric or air impact driver, this would be a good application for one (removal only).

 

I have a question i took apart my clutch on my 82 seca 550 and left the clutch basket on the bike like your instructions suggest. The basket looks in good condition. It l0oks very much like the ones in your photo, however my concern is there is a small amount of play in it. I can take my hand and pull on it towards me and the basket will move a little bet towards me. I am standing in front of the clutch and pulling it towards me. Is this normal or do i have a problem.

Thanks
tjm

 

Check again. It may have been a temporary outage at the photo hosting site. I can see them.

 

I have a 1981 xj650 maxim. . The clutch stopped working while I was riding it one day and froze itself into first gear it won't pop up or into neutral. . The cable engages and works to allow free wheel movement why won't it change gears. Is this a clutch plate problem or something else?

 

Great guide Bigfitz! But the pictures have dissapered, any chance that you can upload them again?

 

BigFitz: last seen December 8, 2014.

Sigh.

 

you have a chain guide problem not a clutch problem chain guideectomy time
see this link
http://www.xjcd.org/view/emergency

 

Responding to a post from April 2016.
Zombie thread!

 

Having bought my YX600 at the beginning of UK summertime and frustratingly torrential rain continuously since then, I decided to instal new friction plates. On the few of times I had ridden it I was aware it was slipping a little and at the end of adjustment.
I ordered up friction plates and springs from EBC and a new gasket having read the brilliant ‘how to’ here.
For some reason I didn’t read the whole thread. It would have made my job easier and quicker if I had as I didn’t order new bolts.
Although I was careful re-installing the old bolts on the new springs one of them broke. I was using my bicycle torque wrench - so useful as with several low torques - and tightening in the correct order.
Reading the replies here I ordered up a new set, waited a couple of days and easily spun out the broken one with a small screwdriver.
New bolts arrived and I reassemble plates. The same thing happened with a new bolt.
I took all the plates out again, checking order, positions etc and tamping each one down as I went to make sure they were all sitting absolutely square.
I had to then use one of my old bolts which for some reason has a bigger head size, but it all went back together and torqued nicely.
Gasket in place, casing on, oil in and clutch adjusted and the sun came out!
Fantastic difference, clutch feels stronger, better lever action and full power all the time.
For anyone doing this job, it’s a simple and rewarding one. I’d definitely recommend new bolts as well as springs and when you order them possibly get a couple of spares.
This is a great ‘how to’ thanks

 

I'd contact EBC. New bolts should not break. The old ones tend to break from having reached their limit of stretch, so when you go to set them to torque they have no more ability to distort and fracture instead.

 

Thank you for this. Did you get to make your chapter on the Seca?

 

Fitz has not been here for quite some time he had quite a talent for doing write ups.

 

That's a shame. He was excellent at this. Thank you.

 

Yes, life threw things in the way, so he had to back off of stuff. I just sent an email to him to say hi and that people here still ask about him.

if I get a chance, I’ll try to rebuild his page if needed. It’ll depend if I can get the pics or not

dfox

 

I was in contact with Fitz a week or so ago....everything’s ok, just crazy

 

Any chance someone could give me an example of what 1mm-3mm of play looks like? The phrase "a few mm of play" really shouldn't be hard to interpret but I am none the less having some problems with it. Not sure if it should be a few mm of wiggle at the end of the handlebar lever or where the lever connects to the cable. Haven't really found a clutch setting that feels "right." Either too much play or its too heavy or it feels like the clutch isnt being returned all the way.

Also, clutch lever always feels unusually "heavy" when the bike is off but when it's running it feels totally normal. Weird or normal??

Thanks, guys.

 

an inch is 24 mm
3mm is 1/8 inch
it is the space between lever and perch

lube the cable

 

Question: I recently replaced clutch and have adjusted everything best I can. On a cold bike after start up and brief warm up (in Texas), when I shift into first gear, it clunks real hard and sometimes kills the bike. All other shifts are fine. And, once the bike is warm after a riding a few minutes, it will shift into first smoothly. Why is that initial cold shift clunking so hard into gear?

 

My bike does the same when cold. Here is a modification that I am going to do might be of interest to you.

https://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/smoother-shifting-mod.117483/

 

I just did this exchange and now my bike wont shift gears when started. Im stuck in first gear, cant put in neutral or 2:nd.

What did i do wrong here, feels like i missed something vital??