My first XJ7560J a lot of work ahead (or not)

So after my current fight/project/struggles with the 650 seca I managed to make arrangements to acquire a 1982 750J. The guy actually was giving 2 of them for free.

Here is what he said about the bikes:

"One was my daily driver the other a parts bike. My daily driver is completely stock with new tires I just changed the oil and the oil in the front forks, a large wind screen and back rest but the trip meter doesn’t work. The parts bike is in pieces.
NOTE: BOTH HAVE ENGINGS WITH BAD STARTER TROW OUT GEAR PROBLEMS. This is an internal problem to fix that is beyond my ability. The motor now with the parts bike was swapped out from my daily driver and ran find until it got a starter gear problem."

I am hoping this are promising projects that will be waiting for the 650 seca "dragon warrior" to be done before I get to them.

Thanks to Fitz and Dave for infecting me with the XJ, now I have more bikes than projects that I will ever need around the house.

The 750s are in Ohio so it will be a while until I can go and get them, in the meantime my buddy will hold on to them for me.

As this new endeavor progresses I will post updates. Hopefully the "throwing out gear" problems is not to hard to fix but what the heck, I am building the 650/750 seca and going over every mechanical part so I am sure it will be just as fun

 

Re: Another 1982 750J Project

So here a pictures of the new project:











I am such a lucky man, I am really blessed to have met such awesome people here. If owning an XJ is a requirement for nice people I can't wait to meet y'all at a Carb Clinic.

 

Re: Another 1982 750J Project

Eco, you're officially an addict! ^_^

 

Re: Another 1982 750J Project

How in the world did you get these for free?!? I'm always on craigslist checking everyday and never see these kind of deals in Ohio.

+1 on the infection. Had it not been for Dave and Fitz's knowledge and willingness to help I may not have stuck with the XJ's that I own. Its rare to see young fellas like yourself & I ride bikes older than ourselves these days... and actually know how to mechanically work on them (thanks to older guys willing to help us out!!)

 

Re: Another 1982 750J Project

I always find good deals in Ohio, that is where I got my parts bike. To get them for free I am just going to call it Karma. I wasn't looking for a free bike because I have two on the driveway that need some love but these were out there so... why not

And yes, Fitz and Dave are really keeping me focused on those days when daddy daycare is open and I just want to be done with the bikes (one way or the other). They are my XJ yoga instructors, I even call fitz Master Shifu, and I can only aspire to know that much as a young Dragon Warrior

 

Re: Another 1982 750J Project

Ecologito got them for free because they were first offered for free on XJ owners micapeak. Dave is a member of this list, and so do I , but I'm definitely too far from Ohio (and a bit envious now) lol!

 

Re: Another 1982 750J Project

Update: So the PO (or current until Sunday), told me that both bikes seem to have the same problem: "Yes, both engines have the same problem with the internal starter throw-out gear. It will start and run just fine when it is cold (full chock) but when it gets hot the starter won’t engage."

Does anyone have any experience with this problem? Any ideas how easy or hard would it be to take care of them?

I find it odd that both have the same issue so I am curious if it is an aged part , riding style or setup that made both fail.

 

Re: Another 1982 750J Project

Throw out gear? Maybe the sprague clutches are worn, or he's thinking of a different bike.

 

Re: Another 1982 750J Project

I have no idea, like I said it find it odd that both bikes would develop the same issue, unless it is a "normal wear" it would be too much coincidence for both to wear out at the same time.

Any ideas on how easy/hard is it to replace/ get the problem fixed?

 

Re: Another 1982 750J Project

Sounds like starter clutch issues. Being that he had the same problem with both engines sounds strange. There are several things that can cause starter clutch issues. A weak battery, worn brushes in the starter, and more commonly the wrong type of oil. This could actually be your lucky day because all three of them are simple fixes! The fact that he had the same issue on both would point to the battery or oil because they're the common variables between the two engines provided he changed the oil in the replacement motor. Just a few ideas...not trying to get your hopes up too much but it may be as simple as an oil change with correct oil or new battery. Good luck!

 

Re: Another 1982 750J Project

He mentioned also something about installing a resistor on the battery wire because his battery didn't come with one. Not sure why he would do that sonce the stock bikes does not come with one as far as I know. Could this be the culprit of the issues?

 

Re: Another 1982 750J Project

So I also got some updates on the routine maintenance, it sounds like most things have been taken care off (valve shims, oil, tires, petrooster, fork oil).

The one thing that is concerning is that he mentioned that the brake lines have never been replaced. If they are 31 years old that is a pretty darn big red flag to wave around but we'll see (it will not see the road until I get to check them out).


Also "To start cold, turn petcock to prime and notice the bubbles go away in the fuel filer then return to normal. Turn the enrichment full and crank. It will cough and sputter and then rev up real high. Be ready to decrease the enrichment to keep the rpm’s less that 3 or 4k. You will have to keep reducing the enrichment continually as it warms up. With the gas we get with alcohol in it, it is trying to burn water at first, as it clears it’s throat.

When it is warm DO NOT USE ENRICHMENT it will start right up even with a short push with the enrichment off."

This does not sound quite right but we'll see.

Other than that and the starter issue when it's hot it sounds like bike #1 is in great shape.

We'll see what bike # 2 has for me.

 

Re: My first XJ7560J a lot of work ahead

One additional question, how could the speedo read at "half of the speed" you are riding?

Are these big atari style gauges serviceable?

 

Re: Another 1982 750J Project

This sounds about normal to me as far as a cold start procedure. I can't say I believe entirely his bit about burning off water. I only need to prime if the bike has been sitting a few days.

 

Re: Another 1982 750J Project

He more than likely added a resistor to the battery sensor lead so the warning light would function properly.

 

Re: My first XJ7560J a lot of work ahead

Thanks for the feedback, I wasn't sure why would he add a resistor or how long it would take to warm up and run without the choke on.

 

Re: My first XJ7560J a lot of work ahead

When he mentions "enrichment" in the start procedure, I'm pretty sure he's talking about the choke.

 

Re: My first XJ7560J a lot of work ahead

That is what I thought too

My friend picked up he bikes today and he said Jeff is a great guy, we are excited to get this puppies taken care off and figure out the starter thing. Reading on ebay it seems like a common problem but due to the lack of details on some people's post is hard to tell if it is the starter clutch, or the starter motor that is giving them a hard time. Time will tell.

 

Re: My first XJ7560J a lot of work ahead

So the bike is being delivered to me tomorrow. Once again uship.com work great for me. It is being shipped from Dayton OH to Charlotte, NC for $200.

Here is what is on the way:

 

The new toy is finally home. The guy from uship was really nice and they delivered about 20 minutes ago, all I need is to charge the battery and go from there.

 

Sweet ride . love the engine guards . very cool bike , i hope you will be riding it soon

 

I have done a little trouble shooting, it seems like after starting if i leave the choke for 2 minutes for it to warm up it settles better and right at 1,000 rpm.

I checked the spark plugs and found 2 things:

A) one of the cables boot is broken, the very bottom rubber came off the cable.
B) all spark plugs showed a bit of black on the inside (a bit of carbon) buildup, i don't know how old they are but may just get new ones and go from there.

Once the engine was warm and the choke was off the engine settled at 1,000 rpm, I notice the trottle hanging but realized that the cruise contol contraption was dragging on the throttle. Once i got that loose i slowly rev'ed up the engine. It responds smoothly up until 2k rpm from there and without moving the throttle any further it shoots to 5k rpm where it holds steady. If I gave it more gas it will go up steadily, if I let it go it will drop just below 2k.

When i lowered the side stand the safety kicked in and shut the engine off. I tried to restart but nothing happened. I noticed that not even the neutral light was coming on when shifting to neutral. I turned everything off, checked the fuse box and found the original box, no fuses blown nor any warmth on them.
I turned the switch on and the neutral light came on and restarted right away.

So I will get new spark plugs and try to repair the rubber boot on the spark plug.

Any suggestions or other tests that may help troubleshoot it would be welcome. I may also give it an oil change just to eliminate as many variables as possible

 

Good score. And that shipping cost beats my $3 beans from Lake Geneva, WI to Capac, MI.

BUT

You already know everything you need to do to that bike to get it properly recommissioned. Just because it's "pretty" (mine sorta was) DOES NOT MEAN that all of the same stuff in regards to valves, carbs and brakes doesn't apply. It does.

The "starter" problem is probably a loose connection, a weak battery or the wrong oil.

But you already know all of this. Get busy. The cool part is that you won't have to do anything cosmetically except clean and polish it. It still needs its valves adjusted and the carbs serviced. And new gaskets, and brake lines... you know the drill.

 

Thanks Master shifu, I guess I will have to go over everything through the process of elimination to figure out why the RPMs jump from 2k to 5k. I was hoping there would be a simple answer but I guess they don't call it the Dragon Warrior just because.

 

Nice looking bike no matter what is wrong fix it if you get discouraged walk away come back a bit later it always goes better that way. You said you checked the fuses then tried it and all the lights came on. Are you sure that all connections are good they are known for bad fuse boxes. Also check all the plug in connections if it came from Ohio lots of salt to corrode things even tho the bike looks about like new. Just sounds like a bad connection. Also if you have not tried it. Take jumper cables and ground the battery to the motor. Viragos in that era had ground problems easy to try just to be safe. If your loosing battery connection when running you will probably start blowing bulbs. As far as the carbs go first check make sure they are properly synced. Check and make sure its charging system is working properly if your not getting a good connection to the battery you will have a weak spark down low when it starts charging decent about 2k or so you get a nice hot spark. These are just things to check might not be the problem but easy to do . If it were me i would get the electrical figured out before messing with the carbs that might have something to do with it. Good luck with the new ride she is a beauty

 

Not sure what the issue is with not restarting, the problem only ocurrs when the engine is warm, I can try a dozen times when it is cold and it works.

 

And just like Master Shifu said "Remember Dragon Warrior, anything is possible when you have inner peace."

I took a look at the oil and as soon as I open the reservoir cap I could smell a varnishy smell (kinda like nail polish). I am pretty darn sure that oil does not smell like that so I am suspecting there is a carb float stuck somewhere... There is no point on skipping steps with this good looking bike so just like the neon trees say "Here we go again..."

I will take the carbs off, clean, check, check, check and recheck everything inside, before they go back in it will be easy to check valve shims, get the oil changed, spark plugs, and go from there.

Question: The "warning" light in the middle of the dash is flashing but I have no clue why, is there a way to read what is wrong/why is this red light going off like somebody is paying attention?

 

Probably because the battery is either low, or the sensor is disconnected. As the light is flashing, is there anything else lit up in the middle of the cluster? Might say something like: FUEL or BATTERY or something..........there's a list of things there in the middle. Look to see which is reading.

You got the nice tall backrest.......... that bike is so ugly, you'd better send it up here to my stable and keep working on the RJ.

Speaking of the RJ...........did you get my pic that I sent to your phone? Also, happen to have a good original exhaust system for me ?

BTW......I'll have to forward a pic of the 750 seca that I brought home last friday.


Dave Fox

 

Dave, I did not get a picture on my phone, if you want this bike I will trade for a bike that runs and is hassle free

I do like the look of the seca better than the maxim so talk to me, i would be glad to trade three bikes for one that is road ready

 

The easiest way to "Bypass" the Battery Warning Light and turn-off the Warning Light is with an easily fabricated jumper wire.

Fabricate the Jumper Wire.
Run a length of wire from the TAIL-LIGHT Power Supply Wire --
Splice-in a Resistor. [ 2K Ohm 1/2 Watt Resistor ]
With an additional wire from the Resistor connect the Jumper to the Battery Warning Wire on the Wiring Harness.

You need a +12V Source that is "Switched"
The Tail-light is ON-OFF with the Ignition
The Resistor protects the Circuit from overloading the Integrated Circuit in the Instrument Panel

 

The oil is draining since it had a smell of gas.
Here are the spark plugs in the order they came out.



So lesson learned, when PO says, carbs have been serviced recently, and everything works I will call it BS unless it is somebody reputable from this forum.

I thought the only thing that it was going to need was brake lines and figure our the not restarting when warmed up.

BS!!!!

This is gonna take a bit longer than I originally thought (story of my life).

 

I say the Carbs need a Cleaning.

Hard to start usually make people use the enrichment, ... which will further complicate matters if the Carbs are not Cleaned and well tuned.

Running the Enrichment to get started after the bike is warmed is a sure sign that you need the Carbs ... AND everything that goes along with Cleaning, tuning and syncing needs to be done.

 

If you don't want the back rest I do ;-)

 

Definitely fix carbs.
Push reset button twice to stop blinking or black tape or remove bulb if don't want battery sensor work around.

Shiny. Course mine was also before 3 winters w/o a garage in Illinois :-(

 

run a resistor to the pos side of the battery from the white wire with red stripe it will turn out the warning and come on when you get voltage drop

 

PO added a resistor. I believe one of the problems is keeping the battery fully charged.

The engine will idle below 1k rpm so I am sure the carbs are the culprit of the current issues.

I changed the oil, got new spark plugs, charged the battery and it started right away.

I will be testing the intake boots for air leaks to discard that as the reason on rpm jump.

 

Well... this morning I got the engine started. I tried to start a second time and... nada!

I made sure that I had a charged battery. 13.9 volts after the charge. Turn the petrooster to PRI, waited about 30 seconds. and it will not start. IT will turn and turn and turn but not starting

When trying to get it started the voltage will drop to 10.7 and go back up to 12.5 when I let the start button go. Tried for about 5 minutes until the voltage started to drop below 10 volts. I am charging that battery again but I have no clue what is wrong with it.

 

Quick update:

After charging the battery again and letting the bike sit for a day I walked to it , turned the key, pushed the button and started at the second push. No enrichment, petcock on the ON position, that's it. I guess this bike does not like tie PRI position or the enrichment circuit on. Go figure, I will try to ride and fix other stuff and I will get to clean carbs in the winter.

Thanks Dave for the technical and moral support.

 

I have been busy at work and around the house. This bike is turning into another puzzle breaker.

I never really got to ride it because it was really hard to start and did not want to get stuck away from home. It has not started for a while so I took off the carbs, they were pretty clean but made sure that all passages were clear (especially that stupid enrichment well in the bowls), bench sync'ed and float levels set. It will not start.

Dave has been very helpful trying to trouble shoot this stupid bike, when I first got it it had spark on all 4, I tested a couple of days ago and spark on 1 was almost non existent, strong on 2 and 3 and pretty intermittent on 4. This was with new sparks and having the bike jumped with my car battery running.

I will try to switch coils and see what happens.

On this forum as a "Sticky" there should be a message - "Congratulations on your newly owned xj, be ready to replace everything on it or forget about it. No you did not find a bargain, you just have an old bike that needs everything serviced and/or replaced".

 

Eco, just a random thought..... when you are trying and trying and trying to start like that, are you sure that you aren't fouling plugs? that will complicate matters.

 

We never promised you a rose garden, lol!

 

I have new plugs.

That would've been good, I know where to look for the thorns

Today I checked for spark, 1 and 4 will give me only one spark and it is right after I let the start button go. 2 and 3 have pretty strong spark. I unplugged the coils to check for continuity primary and secondary tested ok. Cleaned the connectors, cut 1/4 inch off the leads for a fresh bite but I got the same result

The next step will be to swap the 1/4 coil with one from the seca and see if the problem goes away.

 

THIS is a major clue.

Firing just as you let go of the button indicates a low-current issue of some sort. Usually just a weak or marginal battery, it can also be a starter or solenoid that is drawing current excessively. It fires when you let go because at that instant you've removed the load and there is suddenly enough "juice" for it to do so.

 

Fitz,

Everything was tested jumped to my car battery while running. With the same setup 2/3 had strong spark.

 

Here is the latest,

Following Fitz's advise I swapped starter solenoids, gave it a try while jumped to my batter car while running to make sure there is plenty of juice flowing and the exact same symptoms appeared, no change so I decided to swap the 1/4 coil for a spare one. Nothing changed, unless I am doing something else wrong I guess by process of elimination this will take me somewhere else unless I am overseeing something.

Any help would be much appreciated with this puzzle.

 

A little more done today. After swapping coils to make sure that the problem wasn't there I followed Fitz's advise and swapped the starter solenoid without success. The next step was to swap tci box and the same symptoms are there. No spark until I let the start button go
, these tests have been performed with the bike jumped to my car running. It will turn with authority but will not start and no spark on 1 and 4.

Any other ideas besides trading it for a bowl of noodles? This is driving me bananas!

 

So two days ago the bike went up on CL and today left the driveway. It was a decent sale for a not-runnig bike.

I will stop posting on this one since the funds raised from this bike are going towards getting my seca rebuilt… next task, order a carbs rebuilt kit (call to chacal).