New "Pool" Idea

you could make a part

the contact us link

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/corporate/home.aspx

 

REPop reproduction original parts

you could produce aftermarket parts as long as there is enough change in the design your free and clear.
instead of rounded corners leave squared off or hexed shape with enough material to sand round by the end user to bring it closer to original

 

It's the word "YAMAHA" that is copyright, along with the "design" of the piece.

Yamaha will license them (we've talked with them before about this), but it takes quite a bit of up-front $$ to do them. Typically, they don't want to fool around with licensing 500/1000 (i.e. "small") production runs, the licensing departments of the big boys are set up to rake in $$ off of hats, jerseys, clocks, plastic footballs, coolers, etc. that show up on the shelves of Walmart, eBay, etc. and sell by the 100,000's.

The legal department is paid to do their job, and to protect the brand. Legally, if they let "infractions" such as that just "go" (and it can be shown that they know about it, yet still turned a blind eye), then they lose the rights to the copyright! That's why they tend to come down hard on any violations.

 

Technically you're talking about trademarks, not copyrights. And that is precisely how Hydrox (the former Oreo competitor) got its recent revival. Kellogg's did nothing with the brand for years. The guy interested in reviving the product posed the question to Kellogg's as a concerned consumer, and they made the mistake of putting it in writing that they had no intentions of bringing the name back. With that evidence, the guy was able to file for a "forced-cancellation" with the Trademark Office in his favor to award him the trademark. It's a pretty cool story.

http://consumerist.com/2014/06/14/t...-hydrox-astro-pops-and-maybe-marshall-fields/

Unfortunately here that would only apply to the "Yamaha" name, and they're definitely still using that. You might be able to wrestle away the "XJ" name, though. Sometimes you can extend a trademark to include a certain kind of look or style. The circular taillights of a Corvette; the seven vertical slots of a Jeep grill; the spherical design of a Weber grill; these are all considered trademarks.

Copyrights are only for written/typed/composed works: books, music, art - basically anything you could feasibly print or watch on TV. Copyrights last the life of the author plus 70 years.

A patent is for designs, concepts, and processes, and only lasts 20 years.



So now that I've thought about this some more I'm wondering what exactly would be stopping us from making a replacement side cover? The copyright and trademark aren't applicable and the patent (if there was one) should have run out already.

What do aftermarket auto body-kit makers have to go through?

 

Hell. And a lot of $$$. Because the OEM's got this whole clever idea of introducing the concept of a "design patent" into law, which states that the particular "shape" (or other characteristic) of an item can also carry patent protection..........

 

Greeeaaaat.

 

Just make a slightly-off copy.


YERMAHA

 

YA MA HA

 

YA MA, HA

 

Patents have limits and they have to be resubmitted to the patent US patent office.
So by some of your folks logic the to own and use a 3D printer to reproduce something is illegal? So if that were true then the companies who make them should be warning the public they would be breaking the law by owning their product to reproduce something!
So Jay Leno should have his ass handed to him for reproducing some parts for his steam driven cars? I was watching his show and they were making some parts he needed to get one of his cars back on the road. So I guess we all saw it and I don't see or hear anyone arresting him for that. So.... I would bet he made a few extras off camera for spares , I know I would have. And if someone needed one that would make me a criminal? If I sold him one?
So by this logic then why are all the aftermarket companies that make car parts like Dorman , Year One, Classic Industries, and the rest in court and why don't we hear about it? You don't because it does not happen. They get around it somehow.
Interesting conversation but we are not talking about making copies of CD's , Guchi hand bags, or Snickers Bars and offering them to the general population.
I think if you BaldWonder were to check and maybe even write a letter to Yamaha Corp Office to see if they have a problem for you to make reproduction parts that are deemed obsolete by them. You would know for sure and they would tell you what you could and could not do by their legal standards. I guess if I had the want or need to do such a thing for a business opportunity, why not give it a shot.

 

Len,
I get what you are saying but if you look a a Jegs Catalog you will see aftermarket quarter panels for GM cars, not just patch panels but full quarter panels. Cheaper than the OEM panels you could buy from GM at the time. How is it possible that GM isn't all over these guys like a short overcoat over that. One of the most popular cars they made and they have aftermarket panels that look like the full GM panels. Just curious to see what your take is on that.

Thanks

 

I'll bet they are licensed and/or the MANUFACTURER (rather than the retailer) is licensed by GM...........

 

Replacement parts can either be licensed, or do not need to be licensed because not everything can be trademarked/patented/copyrighted. A logo or insignia however can be trademarked indefinitely. So making a replacement handlebar-mount cover would be perfectly fine, but making the same cover with the Yamaha logo will get you in serious legal hot water if you sell enough to get Yamaha's attention, unless you do one of three things: produce them under-license from Yamaha, Make just enough sets for your personal bikes (you're covered by fair-use here), or give them away for free. The latter can even get you in legal trouble if Yamaha chooses to contend that your product is inferior and damages the integrity of their brand in the marketplace, or that it harms their ability to profit from selling their own replacements (in many cases this is true even if they are not currently making new replacements so long as their claim to proteted-status is still legally valid, and they have not been so stupid as to claim that they have no intent of ever making any more of said parts).

If you want a real-world example of how easy it is for a brand to crush anyone who violates their protected properties, go shopping for a new Ferrari replica car. You won't find any (not any that are visually identical to an actual Ferrari), because Ferrari spent a decade-and-a-half litigating away every company that tried to replicate their produtcts.

Alternate spellings and spacings were mentioned in an earlier post. Lawyers are smart. Often-times alternate spellings and other modifications of a trademarked names or logos are also protected because it's relatively inexpensive to file for trademark protections of those alternate forms.

If you want to really understand how far companies will go to protect their intellectual property, read up on Disney and the number of cases where they have sought (and gained) the removal of unlicensed depictions of Disney characters that have been used for advertising, and non-advertising purposes by small businesses.

 

Or that the parts are made by a OEM supplier to GM but sold under a seperate brand by way of a mutual-use agreement.

 

Could be, that would be clever marketing.......

 

Or try to use the word "Einstein" in any commercial products. Campbell's are sometimes referred to as "the soup Nazi's". And don't even ask about Mattel and their Barbie dolls..........

 

“Dad, these are just crappy knock offs!”

“I know a genuine Panaphonics when I see one. And look, here’s Magnetbox and Sorny!”

 

Back towards the original topic:

Hey guys. What do you think about fitting octagional tires? They look so cool and would give better traction in the mud.

</sarcasm>

 

Yes got off topic my bad.

Back to air boxes. I have one for a 750 Maxim

 

No worries. You provided an opportunity for me to subtly vent my frustrations.

 

I can say pods suck and you can't get them to work all the way through the rpm range.
My vote is run the stock air box and your carbs will be happy and your engine will run like it's supposed to. I'm off the soap box now.
Unless you figure out the fuel injection like SQLGUY and your engine will really be happy to have proper A/F ratio in any situation. Would be interesting to dyno and see what performance data comes back on his bike. Has to be better than original tests.

If I could only afford one I would do it. Carbs and parts from Len forever is my future.

I vote air box pool with a fee for maintenance and storage.

 

Carbs suck (that's their job). Pods just make engines more difficult to tune......

 

Well... the carbs aren't really doing any of the sucking; they're just spraying liquid into the.....

 

A minor technical detail................

 

Wow, k-moe, I just read all the threads on air pods and it sounds like it will not ever work, is there any one out there that has used them on a maxim and is happy ?

 

No

 

I'm sure lots of people are happy with their pods. A lot of people are happy drinking Hamms and Schitz too. Ultimately it all comes down to what your main goal is, and what compromises you are willing to make.

 

I was kidding.....

 

I have pods, and I'd be happy if I didn't have a starter that's on its way out. To be clear, that's not an endorsement of pods.

 

BROUGHT TO YOU BY PODS

 

But you gave the best answer anyway...

 

Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.

 

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

Hal referencing Dave's request to open (ironically) the POD bay doors!

 

Dave's not here man.

 

Why not just promote the beer can pod modification. Its economical and you recycle. Drink enough of them and you wont even need the pods.

Truth be told they do act as mini air boxes.

 

Bump.

I'd also like to add that a properly engineered airbox enhances engine performance well beyond what can be had by using individual filters. This effect is particularly important in eigines that have significant valve overlap (like XJs do).
A short, and infromative article that outlines why that is true: http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Airboxes.html

Also see page 58 of Kevin Cameron's excellent Sportbike Performance Handbook
https://books.google.com/books?id=J7tQp2LtsYIC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=kevin+cameron+on+airboxes&source=bl&ots=qeS4Dsiwwx&sig=6TZwf5cLRo3CRfKOfG_89K-FwKI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPhIre04XNAhWj6IMKHffFB7gQ6AEIPTAE#v=onepage&q=kevin cameron on airboxes&f=false

Don't throw away your free supercharger (even though it only helps a little).

 

Advice from a pods-user.

BaldWonder's 1982 XJ650J Maxim Bobber

 

WARNING: Satire Ahead.

 

He sure has some bad arse tools... that bolt cutter that he used was super compact.

 

looks like Ribo is stealing my idea about pods and air boxes, I think i was the last straw that got you guys talking ransom for thier air box back. it was about that time that i found this site and ask how to re-jet my carbs because i was going to add pods and shortys to my xj700. Did'nt relieze at that time that this issue has been asked (and answered ) about half million times by you guys and what a bad idea and nightmare to get right. Thanks for helping me save my air box !
But back to Ribo, i did put 4 pods on and with my rest-mod almost done, i'll wait to show you all the pics very soon.
Best of both worlds, OEM air box and pod combination, all the looks - none of the hassels with cv carb jetting.

 

?

 

Both topics have been discussed around here for years; long before I joined.

 

Matti... ? what

 

Wondering what the airbox/pod combo is...

 

After being covinced that pods were going to be a big PIMA, i had already bought (from China) 4 color matching 45% pods and was in love with the way they were going to look. And looks was all i was after, so i modified my air box with 2 1 1/2 " PVC adapters on each side. used ones with a 3/4" theaded bushing inside that could in theory be removed to try more air but still goes thru the air box. I sealed the adapter into perfectly round, tight holes so with the threaded plug in, it is as if they are only there for show and the 45% point down and back to keep clear of leg room or passenger. I'll send pics soon. Heading to the garage right now for more XJ therapy !

 

Please start a thread for that so it's easier to find.

 

So airbox flows into pods? Interesting... can't wait for your pics

 

ya, ur right k-moe, easy to get off track when ur in conversation and really still figuring out how all this forums, threads, and other stuff works. Love the site, and all u guys are a big help. Just let me know when it's not kosher (woops) maybe not politically correct, LOL

 

I just want ptople

I really just want people to be able to find it. If you put the project in here it'll get lost.