NOT STARTING...PLEASE ADVISE!

Thanks Hound. I had the petcock apart and it was pristine. Inline filter was pumping gas through no problem.

Thinking out loud here: I'm suspecting fouled plugs maybe. I have yet to change them.

Could my plugs be fouled also because of too much Seafoam to gas mixture and attribute to a rough running bike? Would this cause the bike to spike a high rpm then die suddenly.

 

clean your plugs... but more importantly did you ever do a good thorough cleaning of the carb? also in your inline filter is it catching alot of material? pull your carbs again and check each and every passage in the carb to make sure it passes cleaner through it.... dont skip your fuel, idle fuel circut or anything. you may have to pull your mix screws as well .... best to tear it completley down and start from scratch. you definatley have a fuel delivery issue on every one of your carbs treat it as though they are all bad and most importantly learn the steps -

- i have been subject to my own wisdom manny times
"Do it right or do it twice"

 

Pull the plugs and look at them.
If they're black and sooty replace them.
Cheap enough, just remember they got that way 'cause something was wrong.

 

Doesn't this issue still seem like a fuel issue? It runs as long as he sprays carb cleaner into it it runs. Stops spraying carb cleaner it dies. The question is will carb cleaner burn when gasoline won't? I'm pretty sure ether will burn where gasoline won't but I do not know about carb cleaner. If he opens up the drains on the carbs there should be gasoline in them. If not then suspect petcock, check by disconnecting gas line and setting petcock on "prime" position at which point gas should pour out like the dickens, or it's likely the filter as TheHound suggested above.

When I first got my XJ i didn't know about this forum. The bike had been sitting for over a year, the float bowls were dry, and I didn't know about the prime position on the petcock. I used ether to get it to start and by spraying ether in the airbox for a while vacuum eventually opened up the petcock and filled the float bowls at which time it ran on gasoline. Not well but it did run. This was encouraging enough to pull the carbs and do a "best able" job cleaning the carbs. It does well up to 6000 rpm at which point it runs erratically. A good "by the gurus" carb clean will fix this issue once and for all.

Still think it's fuel or carbs. Hope I'm right. The repair is a time consuming pain but it is cheap!

Wamaxim

 

what /\ he said

 

Hound! What are you doing up this time of night? I have an excuse I'm working! I guess it's 5:30 a.m. for you but man that's still early!

Wamaxim

 

we dont need excuses ... we are XJ addicts

 

Amen bruddah

 

Ok... I pulled carbs off (as advised) and here is what I found after removing the bowls.

 

Once I got them completely dismantled I found the real culprit. GUNKED UP EMULSION TUBES! I didn't think to clean them out like a rifled gun barrel! The last time I had these babies apart, I soaked the tubes in carb cleaner and made sure the holes were all clear. But that is where my cleaning stopped! And once the carbs were back on the bike and it fired up, all the gunk from inside the emulsion tubes was jarred loose and contaminated the entire carb system like a virus. This junk was everywhere!

Let this be a lesson to all! Clean everything thoroughly!

 

yup you are getting fuel hence the rust. you will want to add an inline filter if you havnt done so yet. find one that is perfectly clear so you can see when its clogged up. you need to clean your enrichment circut, pilot jet, Etc look in my gallery or in the manual there is a good diagram of how the fuel circut operates. you will need to pull your mix screws and clean top down and from the bottom up. I always listem and watch the flow of cleaner for pitch changes when cleaning. when clean that all sound exactly the same when shooting cleaner through or compressed air. if they dont sound exactly the same on each circut it isnt clean yet. you'll understand after a good cleaning why its not working now. also double check your intake gaskets & boots while your there you dont want to have to go back if you can avoid it.

 

Oh there is definitely fuel flowing into the carbs and I've added an inline fuel filter to catch any debris from my tank cleaning process. The sediment/rust you're seeing in the bowl is from the inside of the emulsion tubes that I forget to dislodge during the last "Whole Nine Yards" cleaning. Apparently I only cleaned them "Seven" or so yards!

Thanks Midnight, I'll check in your gallery for the pics! The enrichment circuits, pilot jets, etc. were cleaned before. The only things I haven't touched, that I know of, are the butterfly seals. I have a feeling this is not the last time these carbs will be apart for a cleaning though... and that's ok. I'm getting more familiar with them.

 

Butterfly seals were indeed in sorry shape! I think I was just not confident in my mechanical ability to break the rack to get to them. However once I started dismantling them (After taking lots of pics and video) it wasn't that bad! There really wasn't that many parts, just document the way the springs are loaded onto the valve shaft and you're golden.

Now... waiting on my new seals and it's back together with you carbs!

 

Another Before cleaning shot!

 

Here is the current state of my xj650j! I can't wait to get her up and running again.

 

Wow those are some shot seals. you will be surprised how well she runs once you get the tuning done. Nice looking carbs cleaned up - great job.

 

Holly crap!
What burned on top of those carbs. 8O
It looks like my drunken friends were BarBecuing on them.

 

I smell PROGRESS! Good going, Palmer. Bike sure wasn't going to run right with those butterfly shaft seals, and you're going to have the valve train dialed in. Boy will you be surprised.

 

Hey guys! I realize I haven't given an update in a while so I wanted to follow up on my findings for those who have read this thread and are having similiar start-up problems.

RECAP: The picture you see in one of my last posts above; the one that looks like the carbs have been burnt to a crisp is the carb rack before it's cleaning. I've since stripped the old black paint off and polished the bodies. The odd texture on the carb hats is pitting from rust that was painted over.

NOW they've all been boiled in Lemon Juice (about 1.5 hrs per carb), polished with 1000 grit sand paper, and cleaned thoroughly with Q-tips and wire brushes, cloth, etc. The boiling worked great and the dirt/old paint/ rust just wiped right off. The butterfly shaft seals and shims have been replaced and put back in working order. Those stinkin emulsion tubes have now been polished inside and out. The dirt trapped inside the tubes was adding to my NOT Starting issues.

IT NOW STARTS...BUT WHY?

BECAUSE #1: The carbs had a good cleaning- The sediment clogging up the circuits was a factor!

BECAUSE #2: The plugs were too sooty- Not enough spark!

BECAUSE #3: The battery wasn't good enough- It should've been pulling over 12 volts but couldn't so I replaced it.

BECAUSE #4: I didn't have a good flow of fuel from the petcock to the carbs. My fuel line was bent funky and the inline filter was too large (It was the smallest car fuel filter from Walmart I think) so the fuel flow wasn't flowing fast enough!! More like a slow trickle!

And BECAUSE #5: I didn't have a clean enrichment circuit- If you haven't performed this operation that sprays carb cleaner into your eyes PLEASE do a search for it.

I think that replacing the butterfly seals and shimming the valves helped it's performance, but wasn't the reason it wouldn't kick over. The butterfly leak was so minuscule that it just added to all of the above things that were wrong.

Here is a pic of my bike after a long ride which revealed my plugs are blistering white and my pilot fuel circuit isn't working. No turning of any kind will get the mixtures rich or color on my plugs. Either that or my #40 pilot fuel jet is too small to compensate for the massive #118 main jet. That's where I am at the moment!

 

Thats a very interesting point. Ive only just got my XJ and it was running a bit dog when I got it. Ive been tinkering a little and managed to get it running something like. However, on the way home from work it started mis-firing a bit and I needed to apply the choke to keep it running as it wouldnt tickover very well, and at low revs the clutch was making a hell of a racket!

Ive just taken my tank off to check my carbs again, and I have realised that my petrol cock only lets petrol flood out when it is pointing towards the rear of the bike, with the word "fuel" uppermost. I cannot get any fuel to come out when the tap is pointing downwards or forwards however the filter is full, and I thought the bike had to have the tap pointing downwards for normal fuel and the tap in the rear facing direction is the reserve. Could this be my trouble? Have I been running the bike only on fumes? Am I an idiot, or do I have other problems?

Thanks