Paint it black (and a couple questions)

Ha! Yes I know - but it's ok - I told him I'd chop his fingers off if he butchered the GT550 Suzuki he's just bought!

Sadly I don't work with bikes - but used to work at a brewery, that's almost as good.

 

My 1980 isn't listed here, and furthermore... All the electrical shit has been screwed with a miiiillion times by previous owners, since it's all taped together instead of threaded through electrical tubing or something. Maybe that's more normal than I assume though...

When I was messin' with everything I remembered you said you unplugged yours and tried it out. No dice. Did NOTHINGKS.

A) I believe I have. However, considering my mental tardness at all things electrical... it's possible I haven't.
B) They are non-led
C) Will check this... But both the bulbs and sockets looked the same.




I really appreciate all your help guys. Hopefully I can get this working soon... :|

 

Update on this problema...

My neutral indicator light no longer works.
My horn no longer works.

On the way back from a ride the other day it got dark and I noticed when I hit the rear brake, my neutral indicator light would faintly come on.

Then the other day I noticed the horn speaker is all loose and jossling about.

Any more pointers, I've done everything I've been told in this thread (short of replacing all the wiring and checking every ground). Is there any more info anyone can give? How do I check the grounds? I am even more of a noob with wiring than with the bike itself...

 

1980 and 1981 XJ650 Maxim wiring diagrams are basically identical, you can use either one. The Haynes manual has a crappy but usable version of a 1980 XJ650 Maxim wiring diagram. You are in desperate need of a manual!

If the PO butchered ("got creative") with wiring the bike, then you're going to need to either:

a) learn enough about electrical circuits to be able to trouble-shoot and diagnose problems, which will require, at a minimum:

- you can read electrical diagrams. This is pretty simple, i.e. if you can read a road map, you can read an electrical diagram (with a little practice; the main problems with factory electrical diagrams is that they tend to be "cluttered", and sometimes, there is mis-information in them, i.e. the wire that is labeled as being Yellow with a white tracer stripe is actually solid yellow, or the caption that says "front turn signals" is underneath the drawing of what is obviously a horn, etc........but those are simple adjustments that are easy to overcome).

- you understand the very basics about electricity, and I'm not talking about at the quantum level. In other words, you need to understand that in order for an electrical device (light, horn, switch, whatever) to operate, it must have:

i) power running to it, and.....
ii) a ground path running from it.

The "electrical device" sits in-between those two wire paths.

- which leads to another simple, yet important concept: in order to get power TO a device, and then drain power AWAY from the device (or, to route the power to another device, such as from the turn signal switch---when activated---to the turn signal socket/bulb, and then of course, a ground coming from the turn signal bulb/socket), there has to be physical connection between the two objects, and that physical connection is the "wire".

- Individual wires can be connected to one another via a "connector" of various types.........that's what all those big white or black plastic "plugs" are. They merely allow a wire to be connected to another wire that allows for the two wires to be joined together, or pulled apart. Think "plugging your toaster into a wall outlet" for a simple analogy.


b) Once you know that power must come from somewhere (it all starts at the battery positive post!), and then must go somewhere (eventually, back to the battery's negative post), and to get from point A to point B, there must be a physical "road" (that's the "wire"), then you can be successful in about 90% of electrical system troubleshooting and repair. It really is that "simple" at a basic level.....again, just like a systems of roads (or water pipes is the other common analogy).


c) By the way, the wire itself rarely fails. It's typically any point of connection between two or more wires (the connectors, or splices, whether done by the factory or, God-help-us-all, by the PO, etc.) that is the cause of the problem(s), followed closely by poor ground paths, and then by failure of the electrical "devices" themselves (bad fusebox clips, which is really a "connector" issue; burned out light BULB; faulty turn signal or neutral SWITCH, non-functioning HORN, etc.) The "devices" are actually the most hardy things in the entire electrical system.


d) If the above sounds too complicated, then it is best to take the bike to a person who understands such things, and get them to do the electrical voodoo for you (or, bribe them to come to your place, as that saves time, and as an added bonus, you can stand over their shoulder and watch what they do, and you can assault them with questions to help further your understanding of the subject, such as" Why are you doing that?", "What are you thinking?", "How are you arriving at such-and-such hunch, theory, conclusion, etc.")


e) Dealership service departments are typically semi-useless for electrical system diagnosis and repair, as they tend to be populated with "part swapper" type of people rather than "diagnostic types".......thus the "replace the entire wiring harness" solution rather than "you have a corroded terminal in this circuit, that's a $2.00 part that needs to be replaced" solution.


You seem bright, and certainly well motivated, those are two keys to success. Start with the basics (learn how to read a diagram, understand that electricity must flow from point A to point B for something to work, and that a wire always connects A to B), that a "switch" merely allows electricity to flow further along a wire "path/road"---or not---your cold water faucet is a "water switch", if that helps), and work your way forward from there.


A quick read of this fabulous write-up would be worth your while, though as a noob, some of the words and terms will be foreign to you; that's alright, those will become your "next chapters" in your learning adventure, should you choose to go that route. I'd like for you to pay particular attention to his comments in Section 12.5, at the very end, as that is probably the most meaningful concept for people to grasp:

http://web.archive.org/web/200712140435 ... aqbig.html

And here's your first test, just to see if you understand the basics:

a) Electricity must be able to flow to a device, along a wire.

b) Electricity must also have an "outlet", or "escape route", to be able to flow away from each device, back to the battery negative post. This requires another "wire".

c) New factoid: on most vehicles, ground wires are always black in color.

d) If you were designing a bike, and wanted to save money on all those necessary ground wires, would you, perhaps, use the metal bike FRAME or metal brackets as one big "ground wire"? To save yourself some wiring clutter and money?

e) Therefore, is the frame of your bike not just a "frame" and platform for the engine, suspension, seat, etc., but also part of your bike's electrical system?

 

Chacal, is there a good reason not to replace the wiring harness? That is what a few people have told me to do so far. I noticed you mentioned in your message that this might be overkill. But on average, with this many issues, would troubleshooting everything actually take so much time that replacing the harness might be worth it? Or would you say the "long route" is the right route?

 

Well, a couple of considerations:

1) Finding a good used harness that hasn't been butchered by a PO can be kinda tough, too......no matter what the seller says (unless it's someone who you have good reason to trust). Casual sellers or parts yards don't take the time to see whether there are any cuts, broken or melted connector shells, missing terminals, non-stock splices, etc. In many cases, the seller doesn't even know what to look for.....nothing to compare against. In other cases, they tend to cut, rip, or otherwise injure the harness in some way in their haste to get it off the bike.....

2) Replacing an entire wire harness is kind of a complicated task, especially in the fusebox/airbox area....it gets really cramped and tight in that area. A few pieces and parts of equipment have to be removed or shuttled about to get things in and out in the proper manner.

3) The main harness may or may not be the cause of the problem(s) you have..............for example, your rear turn signals have been butchered at the turn signal-to-rear turn signal SUB-HARNESS (or "extension harness") connection......this sub-harness runs from the MAIN harness to the rear turn signals, brake/tail/license plate light.

Almost all devices have a sub-harness associated with them.....and at the end of those sub-harnesses, there is a connector block that plugs into the main harness. Those are the weak spots in the system; corrosion grows there, poor connections happen there, things get butchered there (like your turn signals), etc. Remember, wire and the devices are pretty trouble free, it's the connections that tend to cause the grief........

4) Once again, the problems you describe sound like they have to do with the device itself (the HORN), or, an incorrect or poor connection somewhere along the way (the neutral light that doesn't work, except when you activate the brake light circuit). Just swapping a replacement main harness will likely not address the "root cause" (whatever it is), and will piss you even more.

5) Of course, in the process of replacing the entire main harness, you might discover where the problem is, and thus "solve it" in that manner.


In reality, except for things like the internal workings of the regulator, TCI box, self-canceller, and relays, most electrical systems are pretty basic and straightforward (I know that sounds crazy to you, but it's true). It starts out with those "very basic understandings" I mentioned last time........each device has to have a wire carrying power to it, and then away from it, and it has to be the correct wire, running to/from the proper switch or feed or to a proper ground, and that's it.

It's all very direct and linear and there's not really any "wiggle room" involved, unlike rebuilding carbs or setting float levels or adjusting valves or which tires work best or painting....which are kind of half-skill, half-"artistic"/experience/intuition things.....electrical is, 99.9% of the time, either exactly right or it isn't, which, in a profound way, is kind of nice from a mechanical point-of-view.........

 

True that. This is kind of how I felt after dealing with the relay. I went through 3 different relays, and one worked magic and fixed everything... then it all stopped working and worsened. I was like F***!!!!!!!!!!!!

From a mechanical point of view, you're right. Much nicer to actually know if something is done right because it WORKS. However, from my perspective, I hate it. It is like in math class, 7th grade, I would "guess and check" and eventually arrive at the answer... But had no idea why it actually worked.

 

Hmmm, old habits die hard. Might have to work on that!

Luckily, electrical wiring is a lot simpler than math! Electricity can't flow thru the air; there's gotta be a wire running to and from each device and switch (remembering, that for some "devices" that the bike frame is being used as the ground "wire"). The wiring diagram shows you exactly what those wires are and where they connect to each other. Tells you what color (or colour) they are, too. If you can find the actual device on your bike, then you can find the wires, too.

Yes, some wires and connectors are hidden, or a pain to get to.....there's a rat's nest of them inside the headlight housing. And most of the main wiring is hidden inside a tape or vinyl wrapping. But that's just a straight run of wire.......whenever that wire needs to go to a device, it pokes it's head out of the main bundle, and a goes into a connector of some type. The wire inside----mainly, because no one can get in there and mess around with it------is not usually a problem. But people do mess around with the connectors (they take them apart, they jam them together, they plug the wrong device into them, the weather oxidizes the metal terminals and corrodes them, etc.), and that's where the problems develop.


- Do you understand that electricity flows into a device, on a wire?

If the answer is "yes", you understand 30% of electrical wiring.


- Do you understand that electricity flows into a switch, on a wire, and a switch can be either "ON" (allowing the electricity to continue flowing along the wire) or it's "OFF" (and therefore the electricity can't flow past the switch)?.....like a water faucet, or a light switch?

If the answer is "yes", you understand another 10% of electrical wiring


- Do you understand that electricity flows out of a device, on a separate, different colored wire than which it came into the device (or, it flows out thru the metal frame of the bike)?

If the answer is "yes", you understand another 40% of electrical wiring.


- Do you understand that electricity flows to and from devices on a physical, tangible thing, called a wire? And that wires have colored plastic skins, some red, some brown, some black, sometimes red with a white tracer stripe, etc.?

If the answer is "yes", you understand another 10% of electrical wiring. You're now 90% of the way home.......


Do you understand how to read a road map? If yes, then do you understand how an electrical wiring diagram is almost exactly like a road map, and can be read in the exact same way?

If the answer is "yes", you understand another 8% of electrical wiring. You're up to 98% now.


- Do you understand that when a wire needs to be connected to, or disconnected from, another wire, that there is a connector of some type/style/fashion involved.....sort of like the "plug" on the end of your toaster, which "plugs into" its mating connector (in the wall) of your home's "main wiring harness"?

If the answer is "yes", you understand another 1% of electrical wiring. You're up to 99% now.


The rest is just details that you're only going to get from hands-on huffing and puffing. Some wires are bigger than others (they can carry more electricity), some wire connectors are square and white, some are rectangular and white, some are black and skinny, some are green and skinny, some connectors use small, thin flat brass terminals within them, some use wider flat brass terminals in them, some use bullet-shaped terminals in them. Since connectors and their brass terminals have to "mate" with each other, there's always a matching male and female version of each.

The connector shell with metal wire-end male falt "blade" style terminals sticking out of it (what commoners call a "plug") on the end of your computer "sub-harness" (it's power cord) has male metal terminals that mate up with matching female "blade" style terminals inside the matching "connector shell in your wall (what commoners call an "outlet", but make no mistake, it's a connector shell). That "outlet" is part of the hidden "main wiring harness" that snakes thru the walls and eventually goes back to the "fuse panel" in your house (modern houses use trippable circuit breakers, older houses might still have an actual fuse "box").

It's all the same, it's just minor details. If you understand the 99% of it above...which seems trivial, right?....you'll get the other 1% pretty quickly if you're willing to get your hands dirty and dig into a bit.

 

I didnt see anyone else say it already so here it goes.... are the bulbs blown?