Please help.. cant get out of first

Heya.. 82 xj650j ~41k miles...

has been running good but the other day it killed HARD a few times trying to take off from stop lights.. Seemed odd, but jammed it into gear and drove me home fine.. Today though, the bike ran good and then, taking off from a stop light i COULD NOT shift out of first. No neutral, no 2nd, etc.

If I hold the clutch in, the bike runs fine, but i cannot shift out of first. Moving the shift lever does nothing other than making loud clicking sounds.

I've read about the gear dogs wearing out and requring an entire engine teardown to repair...
Not sure if thats where im at, but defintitely cant get it out of first at the moment.

Any advice on where to start? Am I looking at an entire teardown? is there anything I can try before spending serious dollars?

Low temps today.. in the 40F range.. *shrug*

Please advise.. Thanks.

 

More likely your shift return spring, or shift pawl spring has broken. Drain the oil, remove the shift lever, remove the shift cover, and inspect.

 

10 4

Status updates pending.

Thanks!

 

Or chain guide is breaking up.....
Read up on the emergency guidectomy

http://xjcd.org/emergency_guidectomy

 

My shift prawls came unmeshed a couple years ago, had to drive home in first gear, took the cover off and remeshed them , look for wear etc springs, mine hasn't given me trouble since

 

INTERNAL SHIFTER MECHANISM PARTS:

Inside your shifter case side cover are a variety of levers and linkages that translate the motion of the your shifter foot pedal into movements that operate the SHIFTER DRUM, which in turn operates the SHIFTER FORKS which then engage or disengage the various TRANSMISSION DRIVE GEARS. Worn or damaged RETURN SPRINGS can prevent the shifter from operating properly, and are the first thing to check if your bike will not go into gear, is "stuck" in a particular gear, or if you cannot "find neutral".

Of course, there may other issues which could cause the same problems, particularly the dreaded "disintegrating primary chain guide" issue, but it's always best to determine whether a simple problem exists first..........

Pictures of the inside of the shifter assembly can be seen at:

http://xjbikes.com/forums/index.php?threads/20246

and

http://xjbikes.com/forums/index.php?threads/28233


A good write-up on the typical problems and issues involved with these parts can be accessed at:

http://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/xj550-transmission-problem.12233/

http://xjbikes.com/forums/index.php?threads/19227

http://xjbikes.com/forums/index.php?threads/48591

However, please note that the exploded diagram attachment on the 19227 page is "typical" for most XJ-series bikes, the actual mechanisms will differ slightly between different models (the diagram shown in the 3rd post is correct for the XJ650 - XJ900 models; most other models use a variation on the same theme).

NOTE: if this describes your situation:

Couldn't get her out of (whichever gear you were in when the problem occurred).

This situation can be caused wither by a broken TENSION SPRING (the small linear-acting spring) or by the TORSION SPRING (the one with one straight arm and one "hooked" arm). Both of these springs are designed to keep the pawl arm properly engaged with the shifter drum "star wheel" segment. Note there is also a long SCREW which retains this star wheel to the shifter drum; if that screw is loose, it will allow the star wheel to rock back and forth or not even engage with the drum, also resulting in the same type of issue.

On early XJ650 engines and XJ750 Seca engines, the original torsion spring used was somewhat weak, and was replaced by an upgraded spring on later model engines, which also required a slightly different spring collar (sleeve) to be fitted.


NOTE: if this describes your situation:

"Today, after a downshift, the shift pedal would not pop back up automatically."

This problem tends to be caused by a broken TORSION SPRING (the one with straight arms on both ends of the spring) which is supposed to center the selector shaft segment. The earlier 1980-81 XJ650 and XJ750 Seca models were especially susceptible to this problem, and an upgraded, thicker spring (which required a thinner spacer collar underneath) was introduced to the 1982-later models.


Of course, some of these issues may be due to something as simple as broken shifter mechanism but it also could be dues to worn gears (see the TRANSMISSION:section further below for details) or the dreaded "disintegrating primary chain guide" issue, but it's always best to determine whether a simple problem exists first..........

 

when this is the problem, it goes in gear but pops out when you give it gas. Doesn't sound like your problem, but the chain guide is just as bad to fix

 

Welp, It looks like three springs are good. Seems like the shift drum is jammed so its looking like the chain guide issue mentioned above or something else internal -- Yay!

Photo here:

Video here:
http://www.polymetric.net/xj650/xj650.mp4

Doing a bit more reading here and will be getting out my long needle nose and flashlight to dig for rubber bits.. more updates to follow.

Thanks everyone for the guidance!

 

IF you find hunks of plastic, plan on an engine teardown this winter. From the looks of your lower frame tube it's been leaking oil for some time, so new gaskets all around are in order. If you are careful you will not have to disturb the top-end of the engine.

 

Emergency Guidectomy Success!

A couple chunks were blocking the shift drum. Once piece was too big to remove right away. I had to hold it with a forceps and used a narrow tipped wire cutter to trim the chunk down to size. A little tedious but not terribly difficult.

Drove it around the block, and was able to hit all the gears again. Huzzah!

Starting to read up on replacing the chain guide now, but from what i read it wouldnt be terrible to keep riding until I do. I guess the worst case is I'll have the same issue, and shouldn't blow anything up... The last paragraph guidectomy writeup seems to back this idea up. This bike is my commuter until the snow flies so hoping i dont have to stop riding before then...

The documentation and support here has been great, as always. Thanks again!

 

There is an oil nozzle that will get ruined as you go. Plan on replacing that when you split the case.

 

That's a $100 oil nozzle, plus the potential for the chain to wear through the crankcase.
You should be good for another month of riding though. I estimate that I put 2,000 miles on mine after the guide broke, and the oil nozzle was still (barely) in useable condition.

 

What does that oil nozzle lubricate ? Can anyone show a diagram of it?
And I expect that would be a major job to replace...
Alan

 

It lubes the chain that will eventually destroy it. It's an abusive relationship.

 

The guide keeps the chain from wearing through the crankcase (as k-moe stated) and allows it to sag below the nozzle and not destroy it.

Gary H.

 

As mentioned, the oil nozzle lubricates the alternator chain (that is now slack due to your guide breaking); it also lubricates the alternator clutch (yes, it does need oil on it). It's a simple pressed-in affair that is sealed to the oilway by an o-ring. The hardest part of replacing it is splitting the case, which you have to do anyway.

 

Having read, and reread, everything that was linked from this thread I still have a few questions before I move to replace the chainguide.

A. Is there a specific step by step writup on replacing the chain guide on the forum? Most of the posts Ive seen are general case splits and rebuilds, which are plenty helpful.. Just checking to see if a specific chainguide write-up exists...

B. Some have said there is a slim chance that the chain guide can be replaced without splitting the case. e.g. remove the pan, pull the 1 accessible chain guide fastener, then use some concoction of socket extensions and swivels and MAYBE you can get the other one out. Has anyone actually accomplished andor documented this? It's worth a shot, but more guidance or photos of the region in question would be super helpful.

C. If the above option is not possible, and the case must be split, what other high priority items should I be relpacing/inspecting?. e.g. chain guide, oil nozzle, applicable gaskets.. What else? Funds are limited so I can only prly afford the high priority items. I'll be consulting the service manual and other books, but asking here since its always best to consult the village expert

D. The only starter chain guide I'm seeing in Chacal's price guide is >60$, but I read in one thread the guides were 30$.. May have been an older post but are the guides really double the price mentioned there, or did I miss the 30$ version somewhere??? 82xj650j... Part number?

E. Thanks so much!

 

A. The case split threads cover what is needed to replace the guide (have a factory service manual and a Haynes manual handy; both are needed and the forum cannot replace either one).

B. There is no chance of replacing the guide without splitting the case. None. Zippo. Even if you could manage to get all three (the original guides have three mounting holes) bolts out, there is no room to get the new guide into place with the lower case in the way (in fact the crank has to be spun just the right way to have clearance for the new guide to slide into place).

C. You'll want to replace all the lower end gasets (they will get damaged during the split) at the minimum. It is also a SUPER REALLY GOOD idea to rebuild the starter clutch at this time. The chain itself is likely still within the service limit, but you should consider replacing it if your motorcycle has more than 50,000 miles on it (this will require that the top end be disturbed in order to remove the crank without damaging the con-rods or pistons, so avoid this unless you have the funds for a full gasket set). I also recommend using Loctite 515 or 518 in place of Yamabond as it is much more user friendly.

Unless the oil nozzle is worn badly (it has a large diameter body, but only a small oil-delivery passage, which means there is a lot of metal that can be removed before failure occurs) it should still be serviceable.

D. The chain guide that you see is the only chain guide the shaft driven XJ's have. Start a conversation with Chacal for a current price from him.

E. You are welcome.

 

Nice... speedy & detailed responses, as always!
Thanks again, k-moe and everyone else!

Now reading up on starter clutch rebuild too since I'm at 42k miles and really dont want to be cracking the case again anytime soon..

Also starting to look for a parts/research motor to match mine. I'm not a total ham-fist in the shop, but I know I'd feel a lot more comfortable rebuilding a parts motor on my first go around. My fear is I'll tear apart this xj, then lose steam andor cash, and that will be one more xj off the road permanently -- something I'd really prefer to avoid.

Anyone looking to part ways with an 82 xj650j motor andor bike in the Twin Cities area? Doesnt need to run, just needs to be cheap.

Thanks again guys!

 

may serve you better to find a running motor to swap out

 

That he'll STILL have to replace the alternator chain guide on. It will fail; sooner rather than later.