PROJECT 900

I've just worked out your hieroglyphics Rick, yeh there has been worse, like bits broke off the valve, or bent stems ect.

 

No comp' on #2 solved, when lapping the exhaust valve it only touched in one spot, shaft is straight, nothing seems bent. :?

 

I wouldn't screw around; this is a high-rpm motor. I'd replace that valve.

You can't necessarily "see" bent, what if you oil it up really good and spin it in the guide, does the head "orbit?"

 

It's not bent; it's warped

What did I win ??

Since all 900 owners in the world are watching this thread,
I want to buy a belly pan- - any condition.

 

What did I win ??

My undying affection.
I think warped is right, don't know how or why, but I will order a new one.
Fitz, i can't really see it orbiing, but it must be.
This is a bit of a freak, because the engine is in very good condition, i.e very little wear.
It has the original pistons & the rings are still in spec', but I am honing the bores & replacing the rings.

 

TIME is right; if it's warped then it WON'T orbit but it won't seat all the way around either. It's warped because it was way tight and not seating fully so it cooked.

You lucked out on the whole bloody thing; I hope you're proud of yourself. Keep this up and I may move there yet (I really want an XJR1300-- a blue '05 thank you...)

Do the guy a favor since he won: There have been 900s there for many model years, all we got was the '83. Find him a belly pan, willya?

 

Funny thing, Fitz, I just phoned the Yam dealer to order the valve, it was early, so the fitter answered & had time to chat, he had the same thoughts on the warp, cokes up, doesn't close, cant disipate it's heat into the head = warp.
Bad news is, it's a back order, 2-3 weeks.

 

I ran the valve grinder at a machine shop for 4 months. . .

Will someone keep me from having to finish this?
Looks like alot of work.

 

Update.
Pic 1 shows the head decoked & the valves lapped, the exhaust valves on 2 & 4 were warped, 4 not as bad as 2, so 2 valves new have been ordered from Japan, 2 to 3 weeks.
Pic 2 shows the cylinders after honing.

 

Note the Ports for the YICS Passage across the bottom of the photograph.

You can look at the placement of EACH of the YICS Balancing Ports and see how the Tool expands to BLOCK OFF the Flow when inserted and expanded.

 

Opinions please on what new rings to purchase.
End gap tested using an original 2nd ring showing no discernible wear i.e. 2.7mm. thick

CLY 1-BOTT-0.024--MID-0.024--TOP-0.025
CLY 2-BOTT-0.028--MID-0.027--TOP-0.029
CLY 3-BOTT-0.031--MID-0.029--TOP-0.030
CLY 4-BOTT-0.027--MID-0.027--TOP-0.027

2nd ring end gap as installed 0.0059-0.0118

Limit 0.039

Thanks guys.

 

Any opinions guys?

 

This only serves to open the door to the ages old argument about what to do when you face this situation.

Purists: New Rings Complete. New Wrist Clips. New Big-End Bearings.

Middle: Use the Rings you got. New Wrist Clips. Forget the Rods.

Cheap: Same Rings. Re-use the Wrist Clips too.

If I pull a Block and Hone it. I take the Purists view. Especially if I've done De-Coke, Valves and Seals on the Top End.

 

Thanks Rick, the clips are a given, I will fit new rings, but do I get standard rings or oversize & trim the ends to tollerance?

 

Can you confirm if the rings you have are standard size? If they are, then go with a new set of them - they're all within spec from the measurements you've supplied.

 

I think you're still far enough under the limit to stay with the stock rings.

I'd go middle-purist though, and not worry about the bottom end unless there's some sort of indication you need to.

This comes with a disclaimer: All of my deep-engine rebuilds (with one exception) have been low-revving large-bore twins or singles. A hyper four might merit closer tolerances; I can't say.

 

Hi,

Having been down this path myself my approach was somewhere between Purist and Middle.

I put in new STANDARD sized rings and New wrist clips purchased at the same time.

You can go down the oversize route and tailor the end gaps to spec but it hardly seems worthwhile seeing that you're using standard pistons. And even on my engine with all the kilometres on it at the time (approx. 150,000), and after a cylinder hone, the standard rings worked and fitted like a charm.

Remember, I got mine from Mick Hone in Box Hill. Worth giving them a call to discuss your needs.

Cheers,

Karl

 

Thanks guys, it's getting clearer.
Karl, I have spoken to the Box Hill people, but I don't think it was the main man, they said they couldn't get standard rings, only oversize? but they could get me a full gasket set for $250.00. Yam at Frankston said they can get standard rings? the cost was the same as BH $110.00 / set.
I can't find a S/S bolt set for this bike, so I am busy itemising every bolt, then I can go shopping.

 

Even with standard rings, make sur eyou check the ring gap upon installation. On the sleds I have rebuilt I have yet to get a ring that the end gap is right on. I've had to file them all. Don't know if replacement rings for bikes are the same or not.

 

Hi Wiz,

I'm surprised that BH couldn't source/supply standard rings but it might just be that you didn't speak to someone further up the food chain.

By $110/set I am also presuming that is per piston x 4 = $440.

I think I paid around $380 or thereabouts after a healthy discount for the 4 sets.

Check the end gaps if you get standard rings. I checked mine and they were all pretty well spot on withthe specs in the Haynes Manual for our 891cc engines.

 

Yes Red, $110 per piston & the valves were $117 each, soon mounts up don't it. 8O

 

That would be a fairly compelling reason for me to re-use the rings I had....

 

True but you don't want to have to do this again anytime soon...

I always resolve those dilemnas by deciding whether this is a task I would want to repeat or a one-time investment in not having to...

 

Hi wiz,re complete gasket set for 891cc motor,I sourced one from a British mob,www.wemoto.com ,who quoted 97.53 pounds,including delivery to NSW.
So, about the $AU200 mark.This was about 2 months ago,so should still be valid. I,m in the process of pulling the same motor down. I was only going to re-build top end untill noticing a fair bit of caseing wear from HY-Vo chain Ah, well, no hurry,still the xj650 to put back together yet.

 

Those prices would be the Australian Dollar, worth $0.803 US.
Which also means you really only paid about $400 (US) for your Project 900.

You lucky dog.

I bought an engine gasket set off "the Bay" for a little over $25 shipped !

 

hey Wiz,let me know if you have trouble getting youre s/steel nuts &bolts.
as that is my job,behind a counter at a store,people come & they say do u have
this in s/s & 99.98 percent of the time we do,they can get very pricey eg set screw m10 x 1.25 x 25 in grade 316 sells for $32.00 each +gst.
i would only use 304 grade with neverseize,also never in a structral applacation,as s/s has a very high sheer stength,(means they can & do sheer of very easily),i would STRONGLY advise to stay away from 316 grade s/s,as it and aluminium do not like each other (husband & wife material),i say that 50 to 60 times a day to my customers.
i hope this helps

cheers al bear
8)

 

Hi Albear, thanks for the offer, I will PM the bolt schedule when I have compiled it, see what you can do. The manual has the bolt dia's but not the lengths, so I have to pull each one individually, takes time & throws up some problems along the way. Wiz.

 

cool 8) 8)

cheers albear

 

Albear, here is the bolt schedule, I will post it up, it might be useful to some other poor soul. Chacal, thanks for your input.

All S/S Allen head bolts:

Generator cover............3# m6 x 70mm x 1.00
Shifter cover.................8# m6 x 25mm x 1.00
2# m6 x 40mm x 1.00
Clutch cover..................8# m6 x 25mm x 1.00
2# m6 x 40mm x 1.00
Rotor cover...................4# m6 x 20mm x 1.00
Rt bearing cover............4# m6 x 20mm x 1.00
Carb boots....................8# m6 x 20mm x 1.00

S/S acorn nuts:
Cylinder head...............12# m10 x 1.25 (12mm of thread)
Washers for above 12# 3mm thick.
Rear shocks...................4# m10 x 1.25. as Cyl' Head.

 

hey wiz ,these are no problem at all,
All S/S Allen head bolts:

Generator cover............3# m6 x 70mm x 1.00
Shifter cover.................8# m6 x 25mm x 1.00
2# m6 x 40mm x 1.00
Clutch cover..................8# m6 x 25mm x 1.00
2# m6 x 40mm x 1.00
Rotor cover...................4# m6 x 20mm x 1.00
Rt bearing cover............4# m6 x 20mm x 1.00
Carb boots....................8# m6 x 20mm x 1.00
but the acorn nuts are a big problem,as they are metric fine, i do not think they make them,& if they do they wiil cost a motza,my guess aroumd $30.00 a nut +gst.(but i will have look tomorrow)
my thoughts would be ,the nuts of the head ,get them chromed,just fill ythe inside of the nut with grease or something like.to stop the chrome getting into the threads,the shock bolts same as or change bolt to a m10x 1.5 pitch,then put a stainless acorn nut on to it.
just to be sure i understand
the # symbol means you need that many??


cheers albear 8)
with the washers,what size "OD" do u need??
also the are not std 3mm thick,more 1mm,so you will probaly hve to triple up to get the thicknness u require??

cheers al bear

 

hey wiz,have you thought about in hex button screw or as we call them socket head button for some of the applications,like shifter & clutch cover??
just a thought.

cheers al bear 8)

 

Hi Albear, forget the acorn nuts, I will dress up what I have.
I have had a LOOK at the socket head button & I think I will stick with the socket bolt, I like the bold look of the head.
Regards, Wiz.

 

Albear # means number or quantity.
Rgds Wiz.

 

Removing the rust from the head acorn nuts using electrolysis.

 

wiz,sent you a pm last night.
cheers albear

 

Albear... I could be interested in a set of those bolts.

Wiz we should talk about doing a deal on the parts your interested in and a set of these bolts

 

Alive,send me a pm with youre e-mail & your address so ic can try work ouy a freight charge,
tks albear 8) 8)

 

It's a very competitive world isn't it.

 

It seems that 2 out of the 12 washers under the head acorn nuts are copper.
The parts list says:
washer plate 10 pn 90201-114G2-00 discontinued.
& washer plate 2 pn 90201-10128-00, it does not say if they are copper, or what bolts they go on if they are.
Any ideas?

 

G,day wiz. I Pulled the head of an XJ900F ('88) a couple of months ago,and the only washers present where the two copper ones. Granted ,the head had obviously been off before ,So either they were left off,or were never there. Would be nice to know what is the norm before re-assembly Cheers,Murray

 

Bump, this post as we do need to get an answer, I have read the manual backward & forwards & it doesn't metion the 2 copper washers, I KNOW THEY MUST BE SIGNIFICANT because I have seen these on forums for other bikes.

 

They go on the two outermost stud positions, #4 cylinder "outer" front and rear......

 

Wiz; I can tell you that both my Clymer XJ550/600 FJ600 book and my factory 550 manual says they go on the two RIGHT HAND outside studs.

I don't know if the 900 is significantly different from the 550 to make that bit different. The motors are not that different in overall design but I can't say for sure.

We need some 900 owners to chime in. Go scratch their washers and report back.

 

Bingo! Thanks Len I'm typing slow tonight. Stuff came yesterday BTW.

 

Thanks guys, I can sleep easy now. 8)

 

I'm sure we all want to know why copper washers on those 2.

 

The 1970 XS1 used copper washers under the outermost cylinder studs to prevent oil from pumping up through. It didn't work that well so Yamaha changed them to a washer with a rubber seal bonded to it. I imagine this is a similar situation. I would replace those copper washers if it was me.

 

I don't know if it's oilways or the way the head is constructed... they're drastically different left to right. (Left is solid in the area of those bolts, the right is all hollow and finned.)

Wiz you've got it apart, are there oilways on those two studs?

 

g'day all,the washer i bought for 900 which is the same as the WIZARDS.
have a part # 90201-10131
they measure ID 10.5MM
OD 22.04MM
THICKNESS 3.15MM
the material is BLACK STEEL, they also appear that they are a hardned steel.

i hope this helps!!!!
i agree with wiz the originals do look like they are copper. :?
cheers albear

 

There are 2 part #s as I prev' posted 10 & 2 the 2 are copper & we have established go on the 2 oilways, outside 2 studs on #4.
Next question, should the 2 copper washers be replaced?