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Re-re-reviving my '81 Seca 750

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by Oblivion, Aug 2, 2022.

  1. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Got all my parts and finally have time to work on the bike, now can someone tell me how the frack I'm supposed to bend that tab out? The only source of leverage is the basket itself and I don't want to mess that up again. PXL_20221005_015322737.MP.jpg
     
  2. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    I use a small screwdriver to prise the locking washer at an angle between the clutch basket nut and the washer. Lever against the nut if you can get a small screwdriver between the tab and nut.
     
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  3. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Slow and steady, I got the tab bent far enough where I could get channel lock pliers on it/the nut to seat it good. Pic is on my phone.
    Got the clutch together without stripping anything this time. got oil in it.
    Got the exhaust clamp on only to find the #3 is rusted away as well. Somehow missed that from the other side of the bike when I found the problem with #2. Don’t think my collector is long for this world. :( So, the rattling is lessened, but not gone.

    Had it running, but decided against an 11 p.m. test ride. On the morrow.

    Thanks, yet again, @chacal and @hogfiddles for coming through with parts.
     
  4. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Rode it to work today. Took some on-the-fly adjusting, but the clutch is feeling good. I couldn't REALLY get on it on the commute, but noticed no slip under load (was an occasional problem), but the primary difference it it's less 'grabby' on shifts.

    Though the new exhaust clamp didn't get rid of my rattle, it did quiet overall engine/exhaust noise down a bit. Should have just gotten 4 when I ordered before. My dad has an esoteric expression for that, I was "Caught trying to cut a fat hog in the ass." Got to love Dad-isms. So I'll get to pay more to the shipping gods. :D AND Len of course, but I don't mind that as much.

    PXL_20221005_163204863.MP.jpg
     
  5. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    So, with the clutch behind me, I'm looking to replace tires as the coming month's 'big spend.' Last ones I put on were my favorites so far, Bridgestone S11 Spitfires. Looks like they're discontinued. Had some kind of Dunlop on before that, but I don't recall which nor what I didn't like about them. Off to search tire threads.

    Edit: Thread search says Dunlop K591. I forget how much I used to post here. Probably have my oil change history in here, too. :D
     
  6. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    I love my Dunlop D404’s
     
  7. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Ordered up some D404s.

    So, since the clutch rebuild and oil change, I've got the slightest whiff of burning oil after warm-up (not initial start). This is new. Exhaust is not blue, and were it burning off the headers/pipes due to the oil change or dripping out of the clutch area when I had that open, I'd think it'd be burned off by now (at least 100 miles on it since oil change). Level looks OK/normal. Not seeing any fresh dripping around clutch cover, valve cover, drain bolt nor filter housing. Stumped.

    PXL_20221010_180310906.MP.jpg
     
  8. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    Is there any oil getting onto the top of the exhaust collector?
     
  9. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    I could see a few spots that are a bit weepy (like the area around the oil level and neutral switches), but nothing drippy. The oil change/etc., may just be a red herring, though, and I only noticed it b/c I was primed to. I'll keep an eye on those areas. I'm thinking I'll be pulling the collector sooner than later, so I'll have O-rings/gaskets on hand when I do.
     
  10. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    A sign I may actually be a bit touched: 69 mile motorcycle ride on what I thought was a brisk but otherwise gorgeous Sunday, yet I only saw one other rider. Heh. Saw some old friends as well. One guy chatted with me at the gas station about the bike - he had a liquid-cooled '79 Honda, but his "wife cut [his] *redacted* off as far as riding." Sad. https://www.relive.cc/view/v7O95VARZQO
     
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  11. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Wheels off for tire mount this week. Rear did NOT want to come off. Took some extra persuasion. I put my mc jack under there after the pics for extra peace of mind. PXL_20221016_223639621.MP.jpg
     

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  12. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Got my new D404s mounted up on Monday and received my bearings (All Balls) and a slide-hammer bearing-puller during the week. Started on them last night and that slide-hammer wasn't the way to go, as it kept popping out no matter how tight I got it and I didn't want to break anything so didn't go full gorilla and I quit early. The Harbor Freight punch set I had was too short and all my socket extensions were too round-edged to get good 'purchase' on the bearing edges.

    Eventually ran to Lowes this morning for a longer punch set and a dead blow hammer. With the longer punch, I was able to drift the front bearings out rather easily. Everything inside the wheel hub was in great shape. Sorry Cleaned things up, including completely cleaning out the speedo hub of 41 year old grease (and then some). Got the front reassembled with little fanfare (it's really easy to cock the new bearings when seating, despite slow/steady taps). Even the brake calipers slid back on fairly easily. My 8 year old helped push the spindle in while I lined everything up.

    Took a break with the kids for a few hours and tackled the read when we got back. Removal was MUCH slower. In that case, I worked the right-hand bearing out just enough with the punch to try the slide hammer and collets again. This time there was enough gap for me to get a good grip and worked out the single bearing without much fuss. Then I was able to flip the tire (by the way, I used one of my old tires in both cases to protect the discs, brake drum, gear from the floor) and drive out the pair using a large socket. One thing I noted was that rear grease was NASTY when the bearings came out. It smelled like rancid cooking oil. Yikes.

    Instead of just slapping things back together, I took the time to again clean out all of the old grease on the drive gears and clean up the spindle and spacers. I also polished up the brake cover with some Mothers and the cordless drill/buffing wheel. I quit for the evening as I'm going out with the missus (having a bit of a warm spell and hoped to take the bike, but can't rush things). Plan to pop everything back together in the morning (with some fresh grease, of course). Though the old bearings were still smooth and had no play even at 38k miles, the new bearings will give me a peace of mind. It'll be good to have this done.

    Then, over the winter, I can check/replace those similarly neglected steering head bearings.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 22, 2022
  13. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    Sounds good so far :)
     
  14. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Got the job finished today. Definitely easier to overdrive the rear bearings. Had to back them out of hair after binding them a wee bit. It's great to have tires without a flat spot again. Darn these Midwestern straight roads.

    Oldie:
    PXL_20221023_195324926.MP.jpg
     

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  15. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    So, since the clutch job, I've noticed accelerations are much smoother. Before, I always felt two 'bumps' in power. Initial, then a plateau, then then another tug if I wrung it up to around the 7k mark. Was noticing recently that the first two stages of that are smoothed out/no longer there. At first I though it wasn't pulling as hard, but I think before I was getting slip which was giving me that plateau. Luckily not enough slip to have blued the drive plates - they were shiny. But more than once I've accelerated, though, "Huh, no Earth-shattering kaboom," only to look down and find myself tickling 75 MPH (on a closed course, ofc.). o_O

    Also, I just love taking pictures of this thing:

    IMG_20221026_135358_981.jpg
     
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  16. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Copypasta from the "What Did You Do" tread to keep everything in one place:

    The front brakes I rebuilt last fall failed on me last night - luckily in a parking lot. Will update my build thread when I have a chance to dig into it in a few days, but my leading guesses on failure are the piston return spring, and/or the honing job I did on my old cylinder. Do not see fluid loss anywhere (res. is topped up, no light, and no leakage at junctions/banjos/bleed screws. Thought the cable to the remote res. snapped, but it's intact and getting a full range of motion.

    Might just be pestering Hogfiddles or Chacal for a known good body. SO frustrated and, honestly, depressed about this. I've got thousands of miles on it since the rebuild.

    In brighter news, I did get to ride it to the first local cruise night on Wednesday - the motivation for me getting it back on the road last Fall. Win some, lose some.

    Oh well. could have been much worse. Be safe out there.
     
  17. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    At least you still have rear brakes
     
  18. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Exactly. And they're newer shoes I just inspected when I got new tires on in the fall. Stopping good. I keep in practice.
     
  19. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Ok, so, finally got into the master cylinder on Saturday. Nothing obviously broken, which is a bit disappointing.

    When I took it out, there was zero pressure on the circlip keeping the piston in. In fact, I had to pop the piston out with a little air pressure from the top.

    The spring is not broken, but it is still my prime suspect. Might be in my head, but I swear it's easier to compress by hand than it was a couple months ago. Any gauge/guid for how stiff it needs to be? I'm still fairly confident in the hone job I did on the cylinder - feels baby-butt-smooth as far as I can get a pinky in there.

    So, for a fuller description of what happened:

    When I did the rebuild, I was a little suspect of how much 'return' I was getting but just figured it was a bleeding issue. Even after getting them bled, there was a bit of slack a the the full-out position, so I took up the slack in the cable. There was a time a couple months ago where I had some slack again, and not thinking too hard about it, assumed I just had to adjust the cable again. That's why I suspected the cable initially, thought it was a sign of stretching then breaking. But the cable seems fine (I plan to replace anyway). When the brakes went, they had worked fine right up until they didn't. The piston was stuck "in" but not engaging the brakes (like hydraulic pressure was enough to back them off, but no further). The pads themselves were not hanging at all. When I fully pressed the lever, I could get SLIGHT drag, but definitely not enough to stop.

    When I got the fairing off, I could see the lever was, in fact, fully against the master housing - it wasn't a cable length issue. Also, I'm assuming b/c of the excessive inward travel of the piston I'd set the cable at, the brand new dust boot is chewed up/cashed already as well.

    Not sure why it went completely how/when it did, and I'm pretty sure I felt a 'pop,' but maybe that was just in my head as the lever suddenly bottomed out. Was really expecting to find SOMETHING visibly broken.

    Visual inspection of the seals looks good (I should have taken pictures, but I'm now 360 miles away - I waved at @Timbox on the way through Tomah) but am wondering if I should replace again (they were new in late summer).

    So, decision time, do I just replace the spring, cable, and boot and hope that was it? Do I still suspect the bore smoothness? @hogfiddles have you a known good remote master body for an '81 Seca at a 'might as well' price? Should I rebuild the whole thing again, even though the seals are new(er)?

    Hope all the dads had a good Father's Day. I drove up with the fam to see my own Dad and we're hanging out for the week. Would love to get the parts moving my way while I'm up here.
     
  20. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    I’ll look to see if I still have one..... I THINK I do.....
     
  21. Andrew Nichols

    Andrew Nichols Active Member

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  22. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    So, I started disassembly MONTHS ago (replace fork oil, steering head bearings, and fix the master cylinder AGAIN). Got as far as draining the forks, and then life happened.

    Last weekend, I finally took the steering yoke apart and removed the old bearings. Also JB-Welded a broken tab on the instrument cluster. Tonight, I set the new bearings and reassembled the yoke. I started putting the forks back together only to realize not only do I not have enough fork oil, but somehow have the wrong weight on hand from the last change? Haynes says 20w, I see a lot of recs here for 15w. For some reason I'd put 10w in last time I did them . . . AGES ago. Not sure why. Anyway, to the shop tomorrow to pick up some proper oil - will probably go with 15w. Maybe I'll get it back together and start the arduous brake fill/bleed process this weekend. Maybe not. Hopefully it's not another few months . . .
     
  23. Andrew Nichols

    Andrew Nichols Active Member

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    I use automatic transmission fluid in mine.
     
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  24. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Filled the forks, started reassembly. Forgot to put the handlebars on first, so control cables were mis-routed, so I had to drop the forks again, LOL.

    Then when I went to re-mount my Atari console, the attempted JB Weld repair of the mounting tab failed.

    Got the rest or the wiring reconnected and cleaned off my workbench to re-rebuild the master cylinder tomorrow, hopefully.

    One thing I didn’t get a good picture of was the routing of the brake cable, or even which end is up. I assume the reinforced section goes down by the light bucket area, not under the handlebar cover?
     
  25. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    32430133-F0A9-462D-A239-F7BC07C9DDC3.jpeg The brake cable goes through the hole in the right handlebar cover, and is held in place by the clip on the bar itself. The the cable goes down behind the right side of the bucket.

    the clutch side is a mirror image.
     
  26. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    That picture shows me the section with the extra jacket goes down in the guts by the bucket. Perfect. Thanks.
     
  27. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Got the new rebuild kit in the mc today and based on memory, it feels way smoother and unforced on the bench compared to last time (about a year and a half ago, so who knows). Also have pressure and vacuum and the proper ports. Don't know if I had bad parts or installed them improperly last time, but I'm hopeful this time around. I mean I had reused the original spring. They don't feel much different, if at all, but maybe that's the fix.

    Ran out of time to reconnect the pipe from the MC to the distribution block, but I hope to in the next day or two, get the wheel remounted, and get to bleeding.

    Also found a local welder who is out of town for the weekend but is optimistic about doing a repair on the Atari bracket on Tuesday.

    Moving along.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2024
  28. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Remounted the wheel and I don't like the lack of gap between the right caliper block and the disc. I noticed it was really close when I replaced the bearings a year and a half ago, but it cleared. This time I feel a slight dragging. Left is ok. Axel spacers are in the only way they can go. Can't think of any adjustments for this . . .
    PXL_20240506_013715129.jpg PXL_20240506_013723089.jpg
     
  29. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    Did you tighten the pinch bolt first, or did you tighten the axle nut first?
     
  30. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Axle nut first with a rod through the holes on the other side of the axle to stop it from spinning. I will slack everything up and take another run at it.

    Was in a meeting and missed your call. Thanks though.
     
  31. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Loosened the pinch bolts and axle nut, and the bolts holding the fender, in case those were doing something weird. Re-torqued the axle nut and there's a tiny bit of clearance now and it's no longer dragging.

    Have some pressure in the brake system tonight to where I can't turn the from wheel by hand when applied, but the lever still goes all the way to the handlebar. Leaving it overnight for the air to settle out and bleed again tomorrow.
     
  32. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    It’s good practice to compress the forks several times before tightening the pinch bolts
     
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  33. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Hmmm. Yeah, forgot reading that along the way somewhere. So when I get it off the stands, loosen the upper and lower fork pinch bolts, compress a few times (now that I finally have front brake pressure again, yay!) and re-torque?
     
  34. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    The axle pinch bolt.
    You want to make sure the suspension is not binding.
    The brake clearance is important but the suspenders need to stroke smoothly, then tighten the axle pinch bolt.
     
  35. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    Ok. Got it.
     
  36. Dave in Ireland

    Dave in Ireland Well-Known Member

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    It's best to not totally tighten up one bolt at a time, but to do them all halfway, then all tight. It distributes forces more evenly and makes it less likely to cause binding, as you have seen.
    In other words, a grunt first, then two grunts. A fart is right out.
     
  37. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    For the brake purge/bleed, I cheated a bit since I had so much of the bike apart already. I pulled the handlebars and top yoke back off, primed the master on the bench with the cap/diaphragm off. Replaced it in the bracket with minimal spillage since I could move the bracket around instead of having to tip the reservoir. I then put the rigid pipe in place but not sealed, and reverse-bled from the caliper until the air was purged from the pipe. Then sealed the pipe, built up pressure in the MC, and burped the top connection 2 more times. After that, the plunger was solid. Topped up the fluid, put the diaphragm, cap, and bracket back on, then the yoke, handlebars, and brake cable. I let it sit overnight and did one more bleed of the upper union and all 4 bleeder valves (no bubbles) this morning. Nice firm lever.

    Atari plate is being welded. Won't have much time to wrench tonight, but there's not much left to do. I hope to get a test ride in tonight or tomorrow morning, weather permitting.
     
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  38. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    If the fender bolts were “doing something weird”, that’s telling you something.....either:
    1. Your forks aren’t parallel
    2. Your fender is bent

    either way, you’ve got some straightening to do.
     
  39. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    That fender did take a whack once a long time ago. I've got a spare (what ever happened to Robert from San Diego, I believe?) that is cosmetically ugly (always meant to paint/get painted) but more structurally sound. I swapped it on this morning (a PITA which involved dropping the wheel again, and pushing one fork leg up out of the way). No real difference, maybe a SLIGHT bit more clearance. The wheel spins freely when the front end it lifted. I also quadruple-checked the speedometer hub was seated correctly and completely.

    The mention of the fender got me thinking about the front-end collision I had about 15 years ago. I'd gotten down to about 5-10 MPH before impacting the car that pulled directly in front of me then stopped. Front wheel wedged between their front tire and fender. I had a Yamaha shop check out the bike at the time, but maybe they missed the forks being tweaked. Travel doesn't bind anywhere, there's no visible deformity, scoring, etc. Seals are good. But maybe they're bent. If so, they've been bent for 15 years (with a lot of down time, granted). Not sure what my next steps should be.

    I did ride it last night. Felt fine, but at this point I really wouldn't know any better unless it were making odd noise, dragging, pulling, or sticking, which it's not.

    Only problem I had getting going last night was despite draining the carb bowls when I pulled the tank and front end off last year, there seemed to be some boogers in the carbs. It stared up and idled nicely once primed, but when I tried to accelerate in 1st, it bogged and died a few times. I finally was able to nurse it up to speed, and by the end of my block, it was running right. Idled nicely at lights. Had no problem restarting at the gas station and she screamed like her old self on the way home.

    Brakes still have a tiny bit of squish somewhere in them (what feels firm in the garage has a way of changing on the road). It's also possible that with all the bleeding and such I've done, the pads might be a bit contaminated. I'll see how they are after another bleed and possibly replace despite being 'new' (last year, only a couple hundred miles).

    So, yeah. mixed feelings.
     
  40. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    Easy way to check if forks are out of parallel:

    1. get two perfectly straight sticks (broomhandle, etc.....

    2. put on through the rim spokes, then roll the rim backward til the stick is firmly held against the fork lower tubes

    3. put the second stick across the upper tubes as high as you can

    4. sight down the tubes from the handlebars .... lining up the sticks in your vision.

    5. compare the ends..... they should be perfectly parallel end to end. If they aren’t, your forks are out of parallel.
    Loosen the tube pinch bolts just enough to to re-align them and re-tighten.
     
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  41. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    I'll have to get the fairing back off for that one. Please hold (a day or two).
     
  42. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    Scotland UK.
    Same method to check door frames.
     
  43. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    I've also seen a method using a plate of glass laid up against the forks. I'll try both methods next time I get some garage time.
     
  44. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    I removed the doors from my XJ
     
  45. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    LOL I very nearly made that joke myself.
     
  46. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    First commute of 2024. 39,500 miles on the clock (not for the commute. :D )

    Forgot how much she wants to go compared to my 250. Like, cruising at 75 MPH without realizing, whoops!

    Steering head baring replacement was a success. Not that I need to or often do ride no-handed, but before replacement, the handlebars would almost immediately start shaking if let go of. Today (on a closed course ridden by a professional) it was dead smooth no-hands. Nice.


    PXL_20240510_164812316.jpg .
     
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  47. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    Nice machine.
     
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  48. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    BIG fairing. BEAUTIFUL bike!
     
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  49. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    YAAAAAAAYYY!!!!!:D:D:D
     
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  50. Oblivion

    Oblivion Active Member

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    She really is, ain't she? Hoping for no mechanical issues next winter so I can focus on some of the cosmetics (like the tank and peeling badges). But for 43 years old?!?!?

    Thanks y'all.
     

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