SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a look

if it's already been suggested, i apologize, i didn't read every post. But can we STICKY this?

Seems like a safety issue like this should be on the front page here... ALWAYS.

 

I'm not sure how. "Airhead valve adjustment" should be stickied too, IMHO

This one's major though; there's too great a percentage of us that have found this condition. Old XJs keep turning up every day, as do their newbie owners, and this is a trap lurking to bite anybody who hasn't checked.

 

a forum admin needs to do it.

 

Front Pads do the same thing. I just replaced the front and rear pads on my #1 1100 and I found the left front caliper pads coming apart. I will post a note later with pics. So the lesson of the day here is to look at the front pads too.

MN

 

All of those delaminated brakes look just like the ones that fell out of my XJ750RH after I got it home this Feb. to start my own resurrection, pulled the rear wheel and out fell these 4 paper thin crescents, one was still complete the other was in 3 pieces. I don’t know how the PO ever stopped. I have been through everything on the bike now except the…nope I replaced that too. “Thanks chacal” I’m just waiting for plastic, fenders and tank to come back from paint. One other note, could Yamaha have put the remote master cylinder on these early Seca 750’s in a harder to get to place?

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

Actually, yes, they could have. What must have been a "prototype" bike was pictured in some of their early ads with the brake fluid reservoir on the left frame rail, under the gas tank........

 

Just an addition to this topic. The first post talks about the brake shoes only. But worst thing can happen. My original drum brake developed 1 or 2 nice cracks across the lining. As I realized it can't be fixed other than replacing the whole lining.

It was easier / cheaper to buy a new rear wheel on eBay. And I was given a new tire with the wheel as well

When you're examining your rear brake take a look on the lining as well and check for cracks. By the way, when you're installing a new set of shoes and the brake sticks after assembly I would say the lining in the drum is out of shape. Maybe it can be fixed maybe not. But this means you have to check carefully!

 

So I'll be checking my brakes, but I see these pictures you're posting and you're saying "ZOMG THEY'RE SO BAD!" but as a total newb I have no idea why they're bad. Can you clarify what I'm looking for when I take my brakes off that you say is so terrible?

 

Sure. Look at my first pic in the initial post. Notice how the brake linings are coming unglued from the shoes. This is known as delamination; in tito's and wingnut325's posts (down toward the bottom of the second page) they included pics of theirs that had COMPLETELY separated.

The danger in this is that if a lining suddenly comes off and becomes jammed in there it can lock the rear brake unexpectedly. Not too bad if you're tooling down a side street at 25mph, can get real hairy at 60mph.

 

Sorry, but what's the brake lining?

 

the "friction" part, that's supposed to be BONDED to the cast shoe but instead have started to peel off. Look at the pics, especially wingnut325's his is the most obvious as the lining has completely separated. In my pic you can see them starting to peel away from both shoes at the bottom.

 

The brake shoe has a metal back where the springs attach and the posts ride, etc. This gives the shoe rigidity. Attached to that (laminated) is the wear part. This is the part that actually rubs against the inside of the brake drum. This is what people are calling the lining.

These pieces should be stuck together with no gap. I was one of the people who suffered a delamination (at low speed) and would have been disasterous at high speed (or at least turned my shorts brown...).

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

Ok here's a shot of mine:


I've also uploaded a High res shot.

If I understand you correctly the "delamination" you're talking about is where the pad is separating from the brake shoe. I think mine looks ok. Your thoughts?

 

Prock,

I don't see any obvious delamination.

Keep an eye on them. If you decide to keep them, I would check once or maybe twice a year. As far as we can tell this is an age related thing not a wear related thing and is therefor unrelated to the miles on the bike or the milage you put on them.

Replacements are not very expensive and will give you piece of mind. Having had a delam while driving, I would consider replacing a 26 year old SAFETY PART (not yelling just emphasis).

 

I came to the same conclusion. The rear shoes in my '81 have NOT started to delaminate yet, and they've still got "meat" left but they're outta there real soon as a precaution. Cheap insurance.

 

My thought is age related, and moisture related, such as a bike stored outside, or in a shed VS. a bike that's garage kept. What causes the glue to break down? Not heat. Not time alone, or they would all be coming apart at the same time.

 

TIME, you may be right. But it may be more subtle than that. Brake shoes (and pads) have anhydrous properties; they draw moisture from the air. A bike that's been used regularly all its life (like my '81) probably had the brake linings heated up often enough to boil any moisture out of the material. Whereas a bike that just sits continually pulling moisture from the air might have its "bond" break down over time. My '83 was inside kept (most of its life anyway) but it SAT for great long periods. (It had 7100 miles on it when I got it.)

I think it's simply a matter of sitting without any use. Less than dry conditions probably do exacerbate the issue.

Good call.

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

Okay, gonna give this a little bump, in part because, as Fitz says, it's IMPORTANT...but also to highlight what Polock said earlier, and Fitz has confirmed, and I have recently learned from experience. When you do replace your shoes...don't expect them to work well until you break them in.

I know in some places this advice is as controversial as "always wear a helmet," but I'm gonna repeat it anyway: BOTH BRAKES, EVERY STOP. If you're stopping with just your rear brakes most of the time...well, I won't say you're doing it wrong - but your technique could be optimized.

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

WOW!! WOW!! WOW!! What an eye opener. When I bought my xj last year, I immediately checked the wear indicator on the back drum housing. Lots of pad left according to the pointer. I will now pull the wheel off and check the shoes.

I've done my own truck brakes for many years. On the older ones with drums, you usually had to have the drums turned like they used to do to rotors before they started putting thinner ones on.

Looks like it would be very hard to turn a drum on a bike.

And while I'm at this safety check, I'll check the wheel bearing and clean and regrease it. Also it's probably not a bad time to pull the rear drive unit and grease the splines from the shaft (for those of us who have a shaft drive model).

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

Oh! and thanks for the code breakdown on the manufacturing date of a tire. Something else for me to check before riding again.

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

That was fast. Rear wheel off and pads are not delaminated, but will be replaced anyway. Lots of brake dust in housing. Cleaning time while waiting for shoes. I did have to let all the air out of the rear tire to squeeze it past the gear drive unit. Probably has a slightly wider tire than it should.

Tires are German Metzler tires and the code given above apparently isn't used by them. There are a couple of codes, but they couldn't be the week and year of manufacture.

 

Metzeler whats? Metzeler has been around a LOONNG time, those tires could be old enough to pre-date the current marking system.

The "model" of the Metzelers might help date them.

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

Fitz, I'll check the numbers. There seems to be 3 sets of numbers on them. Also my xs1100 has those ChenYang tires and the same thing.

 

mine were like that to, but i just JB welded them back on, lol, worked great!

 

Hard to turn the Rear Brake Drum???

They Engineered two safeguards so you won't go Metal to Metal.

A Pointer showing the degree of wear.
(Grab your wifes Red Nail Polish and add some color to the Pointer.

The Rear Brake Adjustment Rod does NOT have sufficient threading to allow the Adjustment Nut to be place at a point where the Pad will wear beyond a Minimun Thickness.

 

Until one comes off and locks your rear wheel at speed... I certainly wouldn't trust my life to JBWeld to save $30.

 

Ohhhh, Fitz, its just a safety issue. Why would he care about a safety issue? After all, LOL takes care of that, right?

Yukon, new pads are not very expensive. If you can't afford new pads, you can't afford to ride a bike. IMHO

 

We just brought home an 81 XJ 750 and a 81 XS 400. Both have been sitting for a good while out side. Nice machines and my friend made a really good deal for the pair of them. You can bet the rear shoes will be one of the first things we pull and inspect. After my experience with the 650 earlier this year there will be parts on order real soon. By the way anyone out here have a good front fender for an XS 400 they want to sell?

 

I think its time for me to check out that squeak in my rear brake...

 

I'm gonna check mine right now, thx bigfitz. shiny side up bros and sisters!



1982 XJ650-current daily ride
1994 XJ600 Seca II-current alternate
1984 V45 Magna (x2)
1981 XS650 Heritage Special
1979 GS425 Suzuki (x3)
1948 Harley-Davidson Panhead
1967 Triumph Daytona factory chopper
1953 Triumph 500 Speed twin
1981/82/83 XV750 Virago- this was my favorite bike. I would trade both my XJ's for a nice XV750. It had the crankcase from an '83, front cyl was '82, rear was '81 and the front end was from an '82 XJ400.

 

By the way, how many hours do you have to have in the saddle to not be called a wannabe biker here? Under my name when I post it says wannabe. most of you all 'wannabe' havin' the miles I got.

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

It's not the HOURS you've spent riding that elevates you out of "wannabe" status but the number of posts you have made to the forum that makes the difference.

Keep postin' and keep riding! You will quickly graduate to the next level.

 

And there are a few of us that do. There are a handful of us old fart "lifers" here, welcome aboard.

You don't still have the '53 Tweed Spin, do you? If so, we want pictures.

 

My bike still isn't running but it's getting close. I figured I should check the brakes while I'm waiting on some parts and they looked just like that first picture only with way more brake dust. I wouldn't have even checked if not for this thread. Thanks for looking out for us all bigfitz. You probably saved my a--.

 

When I saw this thread pop back up I thought it was the "new guy" (k.joel.porter) who had a delam and rear wheel lockup and I asked him to bump this thread.

This is a REAL COMMON failure; anyone else who is riding around on a drum brake equipped XJ needs to look RIGHT NOW if you haven't.

Thanks Tiny.

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

Thanks bigfitz, i had my maxim x this spring n rode it quite a few times, didnt check the brake shoes..will certainly do so coming spring. It did sit for 2 full years in all weathers before i assumed it.

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

yeah... I was going to make a post when I had pictures. I will probably be removing the wheel and replacing the shoes this weekend.

So here's my story: October 28 I bought my first bike, a 1981 XJ550 Maxim. The carbs were sitting in the box and the bike hadn't run in at least a year. I cleaned the carbs, and did some "tune-up" on the bike (new batt, plugs, caps, etc.) and she sprang to life on the fourth or fifth try. I went for a quick jolt around the neighborhood and the brakes worked fine with no squeal and the trans shifted perfectly. So I went to the DMV on the 8th only to fail the inspection due to reflectors and a faulty horn :x so I went straight home. When I was slowing for a stop sign in my neighborhood I felt the foot-brake shudder under pressure and the engine stalled. Long story short my rear shoes are (90% positive) delaminated. THANK GOD this happened at roughly 5mph slowing to a stop and not two minutes earlier when I was going 60 on the expressway!!! I was fortunately able to stop the bike upright; any faster and I would have bit it on a low-side. Check your brakes!

 

sorry to bring up an old thread but this needs a bump. i got some new tires this weekend and i figured while the rear wheel is off i may as well get some new brake shoes. the old shoes looked find when i took them off, but upon further inspection just the tiniest pressure made this big piece fall off.



this is something every drum brake owner needs to inspect brake shoes are very cheap you can get them shipped for around $40 which i think is well worth your safety. not only that but its easy to put the new shoes in and clean out the drum and the hub.

this thread should be sticky'd for new members or prospective buyers to check out a bike they're thinking about buying. thanks fitz for pointing this out or i wouldnt have thought to check this out!

 

lopez; You don't need to apologize for "bumping" it; until it gets "stickied" it's the only way to effectively spread the word.

Yet another "actually happened to me" delamination story; and you put it where it needed to be. Thank you.

For anyone riding a drum-brake bike who hasn't checked yet: Please don't put it off!

 

I did it fitz, on my SEca with 1900 miles, I pulled them out looked fine, lots of wear left, I set them on the picnic table, and my dad was checking them out, wondering why I changed them, told him about the delamintion, he said,"well throw them away then" and tossed them to me... while I was sitting down working o nthe bike, they landed next to me, on the carpet I had set down, and little chunks broke off.

so yep even though those pads are practically "new" they're junk

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

I got new shoes at a local bike shop for 25 dollars. I hope that you all value your lives at least that much if not more.

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

+1

Sometimes people think that some of us are being "overly cautious" or even downright anal preaching about the NEED to go through these old bikes carefully before you go flying down the highway at speed.

This is a very good example of exactly why you can't just buy an old bike and start riding it. I've resurrected old bikes for years; always inspected the brakes. This delamination thing was a new one on me; never saw anything quite like it before except on a Honda CAR and I didn't realize until now what I had experienced with that. But the widespread occurance of this with the old XJs makes it something we need to talk about, and frequently. It happens WAY too often.

 

This thead MUST be made in to a sticky!!!

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

I've had a chain bust on me on the bike I have now, the 550 maxim. Ripped into the chain guard before locking the rear wheel up. Can't prepare for that. I have seen delaminated brakes and just the thought of them is freaky... especially ones that were being used. GAWD. I even check them on cars now.

 

hey now. delaminated brakes aren't ALL bad. the plate that attaches to the bottom of the carb rack would rattle when it hit its resonance frequency from ~ 2000 - 3500rpm. so i took a piece of the pad that fell off the old shoes and stuck it between the plate and the starter and bam no more rattling.

so old broken brake shoes are still useful! just not as brakes, jesus no.

 

Fantastic thread.

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

Here's the continuation of my delam horror story:

So after four months I finally cracked my drum open and here are the pictures of the three pieces that slid out:





That's right, folks, double total delam! scarrry

CHECK YOUR BRAKES!

 

This doesn't just apply to old brake shoes. I just did the rear drum brakes on a car, the shoes were only a year and a half old, and one of the pads fell rite out. I hate to say it, but the de-lam check should be done yearly.

 

Bumping this thread. I found delamination about 2 weeks ago on my rear brakes, thanks to this thread and bigfitz' advice!

 

Re: SAFETY ALERT Drum rear brake bike owners please take a l

So there was some info previously about removing the rear wheel, but does anyone have a link of some more details about getting the rear off and getting at the drum?

I'm pretty keen to have a look at the mechanism.