Simmy's Naked Turbo Project

thanks for the info, $325 seems reasonable to me if it includes sandblasting. hopefully my quotes come in similar.

 

Yes sb and masking plus chemical dip to remove residual oil

 

Last time I did mine in 2016 it was $416.33 to sandblast and powder the frame, both stands, rear swing, brake bracket bar, and fork components. $175 of that was blasting, now that I look back that part seems a little high.

 

Great project....

The prep labor for powder coating is what drives the price demand for items. I'm fortunate to use a guy that will accept customer prepped parts. In prepping yourself you pretty much void any applicable guarantee for the coating longevity. It easily cuts the price in half or about that much.
Without an enclosed blasting cabinet, larger parts are a real hassle blasting (what a mess) so the stuff I blast is on the smaller side. I'd leave the bigger items to the powder coating shop. I learned valuable lesson the hard way pushing my blasting boundaries.
For a complete frame coating including blasting prep, I believe you got the going rate at the price you mentioned. $325 Canadian is about $250 USD, I'd say your getting treated fairly if the coating quality is good.
When you get your parts back all new looking you'll get charged with a burst motivation to get reassembly going. Been there....

 

For sure, however the plan shifts to the motor now. I've always found it easier to fit the frame to the motor.

 

The overhaul of the turbo unit is complete.
He said it was in great shape and it had been previously disassembled as I suspected.
This was my reasoning for getting a turbo pro to look it over, he has a digital balancer (it is not dynamic) that he uses and guaranteed me it is balanced.
He did say many of the G-pop parts supplied were Chinese crap and he did not use much of this kit.
The floating bearing supplied was OEM quality, O-rings were not.
I will see what he didn't use once I get it back.

 

re-manufactured turbo, just gorgeous!
I have a new gasket to install at the waste gate elbow here in the pic.
There's a skid plate in front of it, it needs some re-paint then this turbo is ready to install.



This is my Yamaha XJ engine stand.
Kind of an undignified ending for the Seca donor bike.



I verified that the motor is not seized today.
It actually moved real easy as if it was just running yesterday.
I sprayed each chamber with WD40 before i did that.
I'm going to do a compression test, check/set the valves, inspect the oil pump, new Barnet clutch, inspect the alternator
and just basic tuneup stuff. Looks good so far..

 

It finally warmed up enough to spend a few moments in my unheated garage.
I found #1 intake valve loose actually. A shim I had on hand brought it back in spec.
All others were in spec.
Now I need to set up a battery for a compression test.
There's no oil in the sump but I think there is enough residual oil everywhere turning it over with the starter shouldn't harm it.

 

Put oil in her. Better to be safe than to damage the oil pump.
If you were turning it by hand I wouldn't be concerned at all.

 

I really wasn't sure, that's why I mentioned it.
Now I need to consider the oil plumbing to and from the turbo, 2 holes in the oilpan. Can't simply plug them off since one of them leads to the scavenge side of the oil pump.
Ideally I would need to set up a short circuit loop without the turbo in place.
Either that or just foresake the compression test until it's back together.
From what I've seen I have no reason to doubt this motor.

 

I've decided it will be easy enough to install the 2 solid pipe lines attached to the bottom of the motor then just connect them with a jumper hose as I've shown in red.
Then once I've completed the compression test I can remove the jumper, plug the scavenge inlet (oil pipe 2) and observe how much oil is seeping past the check valve.
It would be a real shame to discover a problem with the top end after the motor is installed in the frame.
So much nicer when the motor is on the bench like this.

 

i am really impressed by this build, cant wait to see it finished.

 

That is appreciated sybe. Unfortunately I don't have much to update at the moment.
Last time I checked with the powder coater he still hadn't completed things and I'm not rushing him.
I'm hoping to get back at it this weekend, looking to do the compression check and if good move on to the motor cosmetics.
Not planning to be too anal about the motor as I do plan to tear it down at some later date and build a 738 or 853.
I'm planning to just respray the cylinder block and head black, touch up the lower cases.
There is a broken fin on the head I think I'll just epoxy in place prior to paint.
I was planning to powder coat the clutch, shifter and alt covers but they're actually not too bad.
I still haven't found a nice set of crank caps (oil pump covers). Everything I have now has YICS written on them, I like the original XJ650R blank style, or the XJ700N/FZ600 style that just say Yamaha, I have 2 new FZ600 caps but also an FZ that needs them.
I have both style alt covers (finned & smooth), undecided which one to go with, probably the smooth.
I have a non-YICS valve cover at the powder coater.
I've got another list ready to send Chacal then almost everything should be ready to assemble.

 

Everything is back from the powder coater. In addition to the frame and wheels I had them do brake discs, 2 sets of passenger peg brackets, top and bottom fork crowns, rear brake lever, rear brake backing plate, headlight frame, valve cover and a few other bits and pieces. $650 for the entire lot. + taxes of course.

 

We need pictures !

 

Here's a sample of some of the parts, everything turned out real nice.
I kept it conservative, everything stayed either black or silver.

I've seen some powder coated stuff done in imitation chrome but these guys do not offer that.
The silver on the brake backing plate is as close to chrome as they offer.
I know others have polished the backing plates and they look awesome, I do not have the time or patience for that.


This is the original rear Turbo brake pedal. They come in a black chrome and this one was looking shabby.
The LJ pedal has an additional tab for the brake light that the RJ does not have. The brake light trigger is in a different spot.
I don't know what other's experiences are but the electroplaters in my area are ridiculously expensive.

The silver set go on the Turbo, the black set will go on my sidecar bike.
I machined metal out of the original set and I was never happy the way they looked, also doubted their integrity after I did that.
The RJ & LJ are not interchangeable BTW.

 

I finally got around to a compression check. The 2 outside cylinders were lower - about 130 psi and the 2 inside cylinders were 140-150.
The motor has been sitting a long time so I don't know if this will change once up and running.
My old & cheap compression gauge reads 20 psi at atmospheric so I'm not hung up on the numbers.



I filled the turbo feed check valve with parts cleaner while sitting on the work bench.
After sitting like that for several hours no liquid leaked by.

I left the check valve line emptying into the oil basin during the compression check and it did flow oil.
It seems to be working as intended.

The motor is sitting with oil in it and I will check in a few days if the check valve leaks and fills this bag.


same thing with the scavenge line. The motor is sitting with oil in it, after a few days I'll see if oil is leaking past the scavenge pump.

 

Does the wife know that you have her good measuring cup?

 

No she doesn't, but I did get her a new one.

 

I'm not sure what this means but 1 & 4 took a lot of cranking to reach peak pressure, 2 & 3 peaked instantly.

 

If it sat for a while then the rings could have got stuck from corrosion. Do the ATF/Acetone soak on the outer two cylinders and see what happens.

 

I agree k-moe, probably stuck rings, maybe some rust on open valve seats. The fact those cylinders do eventually build pressure leads me to believe it will start and run.
Once the heat from combustion hits it it should be good, I hope.

 

X3. Varying numbers on an unknown motor is nothing to worry about. Get them unstuck etc. and then run your usual tests.

 

From Sunday to Wednesday, 3 days I've collected about 25 ml of oil leaking from the scavenge line, virtually nothing is leaking past the check valve on the turbo oil feed side.
I emptied the measuring cup and we'll monitor this for a few more days.
I will definitely be opening up the bottom of the motor to inspect the scavenge pump and it's o-ring seals.

 

Simmy, I "believe" the only access is by splitting the cases. I've been using a check valve located right after the turbo on oil pipe #2 at the clip nearest the turbo. This solution, combined with a good, non-leaking #1 check at the oil filter means no more puddles under my turbo if it sits for a month and no more "blowing out the smoke" after taking off when it first warms up because accumulated oil. Two dollar solution for a PITA problem!!

The pump acts like a small displacement pump and pumps in little surges so don't get freaked b/c it doesn't pump continuously.

jeff

 

For some reason I thought you installed an additional check valve before the turbo to supplement the OEM check valve. What you've done makes sense to me now as I've learned the oil is seeping on my bike through the scavenge line and nothing through the check valve on the feed line. Have a look at the parts schematic of the oil pump. Part #6 is labelled a gasket and #7 an o-ring. I thought this might be accessible with the bottom pan removed. I think Chacal lists both as available. Installing your check valve would certainly stop it. I checked the measuring cup I have under my motor again and can verify it is leaking 25 ml every couple of days. I need to do something.

 

I pulled the oil pump out today.
The 2 rubber seals I wanted to verify were both in place, the scavenge seal is hard but I don't believe it was the culprit leaking oil.
I'll replace them anyway.
I think it must be leaking through the pump itself. I'm planning to install an external check valve as Jeff K suggested.

scavenge pump seal to oil pan


oil pump seal to lower case

 

Simmy,

From what I remember reading, the o rings on the shaft itself leaks and allow the oil to drip back to the turbo but I really don't know any more about it.

Did you have to split the cases the get to the scavenge pump?

jeff

 

the pump is easily accessed once you remove the bottom pan. Once you remove the mounting bolts you can wiggle the sprocket off the drive chain.
I've attached the schematic of the oil pump here and don't believe there are any o-rings on the shaft to replace.
It has to be leaking on the swiping surfaces between the scavenge pump rotor and the pump housing.
Your solution with the external check valve is fool proof and cheap at that. E-bay has them for a couple of bucks, you don't recall what size you bought do you?
If I measure the OD of the oil return piping that should be the size needed right?
The thick rubber gasket sealing the scavenge pump to the oil pan was hard. I have that on order from Chacal.


Meanwhile I sent my entire exhaust to High Tech Coatings near Windsor Ontario for a chrome like finish, everything from the head pipes to the mufflers, basically everything except the turbocharger. Anxious to see how it turns out.

I have a 2nd set of engine covers at the local powder coaters, this way the motor is still sealed (once I put the oil pump and bottom pan back).
Now the weather is turning nice I'm going to move the motor to the patio and sandblast the head, cylinders and top half of the cases. I bought one of those cheap sandblasters, its just an air gun with a container on top for the sand. Once I spray these areas with black engine enamel I can bolt the motor and frame together.

I read on the Turbo forum a Walbro GSL395 fuel pump was recommended. Looking into ordering one of those.

 

If you do enough sandblasting on the porch you will have your own private beach. Will you have this bike ready for Paris?

 

Yea we’ll see how effective my $30 sandblaster is.
I do expect to take it to Paris, probably in 2020
At some point I need to focus on spring maintenance of the bikes I actually ride. Are you going to the swap meet Apr.27?

 

I will be attending for the morning. The hunt for parts will start. I have to go to work in the afternoon to pay for the parts I find.

 

while the high temp coater was sandblasting my parts he found rust perforations in the waste gate muffler (RH).
He will attempt to braze this up with brass.
I suspect relying on the waste gate to open doesn't always heat this side enough to rid it of moisture.
I could run it without this side but a bike with a LH only silencer looks too weird to me. BMW has bikes like that.

 

Thanks for posting the info Simmy, I learned something new so I can go home for the day!

jeff

 

Any progress lately?

jeff

 

XJ porn


The entire exhaust except for the turbo housing is done in pseudo chrome.
I'd like to put the Ducati pipes I have on it eventually. This is good for now.
The oil pump is back together with new seals, next big task is painting the cylinders and head.

 

Looks nice, how does it compare to original chrome, and can you explain a little more about what process is used?

 

These are the guys

www.hightechcoatings.com

 

I had no one strong to help me lift the motor outside so I set up a sandblasting tent inside my garage.
It did a pretty good job containing the dust but it was too awkward and difficult to see what I was doing.
I cut holes to stick my arms inside and cut view ports to see. I'm also gonna need a face shield, LOL
I still need to move it outside for a final blast. The good news is my $30 sandblaster works pretty good.




I taped off most of the lower cases as the paint was still pretty good, easier to just touch up where paint is missing.
Its only the cylinder block and head getting paint, all the removable covers are powder coated.

 

Encountered a small son-of-a-diddly while removing the starter motor. The shorter of the 2 mounting bolts snapped off about 1/4" proud of the case.
Normally this presents an opportunity for vice grips however this partial bolt sticking up prevented the starter motor from sliding out of it's O-ring seat.
I lifted the starter motor just enough to saw the bolt off flush. Funny that just 2 weeks ago I restocked my tool chest with every size easy out available, in both the threaded and knife edge type. Started drilling into the bolt but that's as far as I got.

I'm still prepping the motor for paint, been a slow process but once the motor is ready to bolt to the frame things will advance faster.

 

Left
Twist
Drill

 

if you're going to snap a bolt off this was an easier location to deal with. I was surprised that this bolt holding the starter motor penetrated the oil cavity.
Believe me I checked that out before I drilled right through.
It will never seep being at the top of the oil galley.
I'll try heating it then rapid cool it with compressed air before I try turning it with an easy-out.
There's really not much left of the bolt.
If you were to snap the longer bolt off you may as well go cry to mama.
The internal threads are way down inside the case.
I have no clue why my pics are fuzzy.

 

the FZ600 forks I'm using are 31 inches from the fork cap to the centre of the axle.
The Turbo fork measures 31 inches from the top edge of the fork tube to the axle, virtually the same.
I have stiffer springs going in. Notice how far apart the brake mounting holes are, that should stiffen the calipers, probably what Yamaha thought.
The 16 inch wheel drops the front end just over an inch. The 16 on the rear drops it about .75 inches

 

this battle was won with help from Heli-coil.


I cringed at the price of the Heli-Coil kit for 6 mm threads $100.
I have 11 more inserts now with installation tools.
I hope I never need them again. Actually they are real easy to install if you take your time.

 

I really had no reason to remove the starter other than cleaning underneath it.
Anyway its better to have found and fixed this problem now rather than later with the motor installed.

 

I finally painted the head and cylinders. You could spend an eternity sanding and smoothing all the million crevices, at some point I decided enough.
Liquid-cooled cylinders and heads are much easier than this.
3 coats of VHT high-temp primer and 3 coats Duplicolor high-temp black, all applied in 10 minute intervals.
I was a little unsure mixing 2 brands of paint but looks good so far, no disastrous reaction yet.
There is paint missing where the 2 lower cases join, I'm planning to just touch this up with Tremclad as the temperatures are much less there.
It will also be mostly hidden by the frame, pipes and oil cooler anyway.
I have some good detail sparay which will bring the black luster back to match the new paint.
I picked up all remaining stuff I had at the powder-coaters last Friday.
Unfortunately the shifter cover I left with them had a big crack in it which was not evident until they sandblasted it.
The black finish of the original shift cover is acceptable so I'm done with the powder coating.
The only thing left which might need black paint is the swing arm. I didn't send it to the powder-coaters because I didn't want to mess with the bearings.
I hope to get away with a little touch up only.

Next pic I post will have the motor back in the now shiny frame, let the build begin!

 

the motor is back in the frame with new tapered roller steering bearings.


I intended to put the Racetech springs into the FZ600 forks, pour in new oil and install them on the bike.
When I pulled them apart, this is the way a PO had installed the variable dampers. It just didn't seem right until I realized they were installed upside-down.
Instead of variable dampening he would have had zero dampening.
While noodling on that I put standard 650 Seca forks and a spare FZ wheel on just to stabilize the motor/frame while I start assembling things.

 

WOW! I guess normal men don't read directions afterall.
Thankfully none of us here are normal.

 

Those are not directions, they are manufacturers suggestions.

 

I finished my FZ forks tonight and mounted them on the bike.
The manual states 20.4" free length for the stock springs, the originals were pretty much there.
Below is a pic of the Racetech spring and approximately a 6" spacer.
I first made this combo about 21" and I could not get the top screwed on, they were a complete bear.
I took off chunks until I had about 20.25" combined length of spring and spacer. This I finally got screwed together.
The forks are noticeably stiffer than the stock Seca fork on hand for comparison.
If they end up too stiff I can continue chopping them down later.

Notice my workshop fork clamp.
If you have several XJ's with 36 mm forks it's great to have a scrap lower fork crown for holding forks in a vice.
315 ml Motul 10 wt added.