Simmy's Naked Turbo Project

I'm 1st to admit, I'm a tacker, not a welder, LOL.
new tires installed at both ends.
I can make a list of things to complete and it's not big now.

 

The turbo fuel tap just fits. I should have verified this before modifying the tank.
The lower fuel hose will just touch the carb hat.



I bought a jug of metal restore I planned to flush the tank. However I took a good look inside and there is virtually no rust.
If I get time today I'll rig up my tuning fuel tank and try firing it up.
I ordered custom brake lines waiting for them to show up so it won't be leaving the garage just yet.
Fingers are crossed that I'm able to get it fired and the idle synced.
Probably 20 years since run.
I have new grab handles and seat buckle hardware ordered from XJ4Ever, plus the extension wire for the rear brake light, that is the only thing I lost while I had 3 bikes stripped down to make this thing, parts stashed all over the basement, garage and shed.
1st post in this build was Feb 2017. More than 3 years to this point.
Once I have it running correctly I can dream about shiny paint. I have plans, it will look like something from Yamaha.

 

Really coming together now! Hoping for a video and engine sounds!

 

Bike looking great Simmy.

 

I really like what you've done here @Simmy . But, I have to say your workshop is something of a fire hazard. Please don't take this the wrong way, as someone who also isn't the tidyiest I have to stop and have a think now and again. (I do a bit of welding in there occasionally so have to be extra careful). Good luck with running the bike for the 1st time!

 

I guess I’ll need to tidy up before revealing too much.
It looks much worse with the pizza box sticking out of the recycle box, something I will move prior to starting it.
The bike table often looks worse as my wife thinks the garage is meant to hold things she doesn’t want in the house. It’s a constant battle.

 

Simmy,
Lots of progress going into your build and good to see.

I notice that you have the slotted rotors but you need to swap sides. Supposed to be in this direction:


Keep us posted.

Tony

 

Thanks @xHondaHack , I’m usually more perceptive than that.

 

The struggle is real man. I feel your pain.

 

No no the worst thing is when the wife comes in to the garage to tidy up your work area. There after I can't find a dam thing.

 

Well it runs. Still need to synch the carbs but running pretty good.
The new fuel pump empties that MotionPro auxilliary fuel tank in no time.
I have the discharge fuel line feeding into another gas can on the floor.
I noticed I heard a chinking sound, you can hear me say WTH is that?
I think its just the pipes heating up, probably takes a while for everything to expand into position.

 

Awesome!!

 

Looking forward to seeing the grin when you come back after the first run - turbo boost induced!

 

Simmy, what was happening in the video? You noticed some things and I'm curious.

 

I heard some "chinking" sounds, kind of like the sound you hear when an air-cooled bike is shut off.
I suspect its just the exhaust getting hot for the first time and all the pieces expanding into position.
Yesterday's success was a big relief, so many things coming together.

 

I took it out for the first spin around the neighborhood today. I'm still not satisfied with the idle response so I guess I'll need to play with the Colortune.
I've not had any success using it before but I'll try it again.
I did get into the boost a couple times, it looked like it was approaching 10 psi on the cheap boost gauge, I quickly ran out of straight pavement.
I phoned around looking for someone who does metal-flake paint, I might have to reconsider this, I was quoted some ridiculous numbers.

 

Also the red warning light fails to glow when I turn the key.
This is disappointing after going to the trouble of installing the RJ low level unit and diode pack.
I'm not sure how to trouble shoot this. It's not the bulb, already checked that.

 

Red and Silver—-it’s a Can-Am!!!

 

That’s just awesome, congrats on getting it on the road!

About the warning light, it should light when you press the starter button but not when you turn the key. I’ll have to look back through the thread as I know we made some suggestions on this.

 

Thanks Jay, yes there was discussion with you and Rooster, I had little clue otherwise.

 

I think the paint scheme is fine as-is.
Once the mixture is dialed in nobody will guess what she can do.

 

I just re-read what you wrote, and went back out to the garage. It does light up with the starter button, we're good.
For some reason I thought it should glow as soon as the key is turned on.

 

I have a silver tail and sidecovers so I could go the stock 650 look real easy.
Only you most astute XJ guys would spot the Turbo exhaust pipes.
However, I already have custom decals BDesigns.ca made for me.
I've got a plan, secret for now.

 

Love that turbo whistle.

 

Love it. Nice work on getting it on the road

 

Thanks for the comments guys, all appreciated. I haven't got any further with tuning the bike and have a total of 8 kilometers on it.
I'm teaching my 15 yo son a few things so last night we took the head off the $75 XJ900 motor I have and I liked what I saw. The motor turned freely and the bores appear good.
There was a rough line I found 1/2 way down the stroke where the piston was sitting but I was able to rub it away with my finger.
I will need to measure the bores, pistons and ring gap more precisely but initial glance looks good.
I have a $50 Turbo motor which I was told is seized and looks like it was stored in a swamp. That's ok as it's a mock up only.
Step 1 is to set the the 900 pistons & barrels on to this 650T crank and cases (& head) to determine what the resultant compression ratio is.
I anticipate having to machine the block to get the stock turbo 8.2:1 CR. This would be a 738 motor.
Step 2 in this mock up is to swap in the 900 crank, rods, block & pistons into the Turbo cases & head.
I anticipate this configuration would need the block raised to lower the CR to 8.2:1. This would obviously be an 853 motor.
I'm leaning towards the 738 as it will not require splitting my cases and I can install it without removing the motor from the bike.
I went through the following procedure with my 911X when I grafted FZR1000 barrels to the XJ750X.
Smother the rings on #1 piston with grease before slipping the barrel on.
Set the piston to TDC, install the head then fill the combustion chamber with a measured volume of WD40 to the spark plug hole.
Now just compare the cc's of WD40 (combustion chamber) to the volume of the cylinder (bore area x stroke)
I'll be posting these findings. I've noticed the Yamaha manuals show the various volumes of the heads and I think the standard 650 is different than the Turbo so these numbers might not be relevant to anything but a big bore turbo (8.2:1)

If anyone is looking for 900 parts I will have lots available, the only parts I need are mentioned above.
The cams look to be in great condition and will likely go in the trash if no one wants them.
Same with the head although the intake and exhaust studs are all snapped off so it would be a challenge to salvage it.
Cam cover is good if someone wants to refinish it while theirs is still on the bike.
I also have 600 motor parts if someone wants them, otherwise going to the trash also.

 

So, why are you doing this? Why not just turbo the 900 motor? Is it to do with the oil scavenge pump?

 

This is what I believe would be required to swap in a 900:

1. I believe the oil pump and oil pan from the Turbo can be swapped over to the 900. I'm not certain if the oil pump drive sprocket spins the pump same RPM's?
2. Pick up coils from the Turbo could be moved over also, I see no problem there.
3. The head from the Turbo needs to be utilized for the special Turbo cams and the Turbo's carbs. The 900 head is wider so the cams are not interchangeable nor the carbs.
4. the knock sensor can be installed on the 900 barrels. The boss is there, just needs to be tapped.
5. The compression still needs to be lowered (extra base gasket) and using the Turbo head means I still need to go through the actual fluid measurements.
6. the 900 has an 8mm longer stroke so I suspect the carbs would be misaligned by 4mm. I think this backyard mechanic could make that fit.

So you are correct @Minimutly it would be easiest to just swap in 95% of a good 900 motor. Unfortunately the one I have has no history and I don't know why it was parted.
I know I bastardized this bike completely already but everything I've done I believe makes it more desirable than the OEM Turbo, gawd they are ugly.
It is still a numbers matching bike for whatever that's worth, LOL.
Having said this I've made an appointment tomorrow to go see a 900, see here - https://www.kijiji.ca/v-street-crui...-project-bike-with-ownership-900cc/1507653079
It would be nice to keep my numbers matching motor completely stock on the shelf and abuse the shite out of another motor.

 

Why not build a 900 turbo that looks like the seca? (Next project?) The frame is stronger and stiffer,I think you could add some diversion wheels, brakes and swingarm, it would be quick and pretty, and handle quite well? Maybe you should have started with a 900, but that's history.

 

No I'm building exactly what I envisioned, no regrets.

 

This exactly.

 

And nor should you have any - what you've created is awesome - Yamaha should have done it.
But wht faff around with a 900 engine - is the 650 not fast enough? I did think you were looking to build another, hence my comment. I have a 900 frame and engine, plus a 650 turbo engine - maybe will become a 900 turbo eventually, but need to collect all the other bits first. Diversion suspension and brakes on the list, but not sure about tank and seat - I don't much like the 900 ones, the maxim tank is tiny. Maybe a seca tank and seat would be the answer?

 

Thanks @Minimutly I agree Yamaha I think was trying to showcase their faring technology which was apparently borrowed from their marine division.
It was a complete miss as fiberglass fairings were replaced in 84 with modern plastics.
I shaved a ton of weight.

This is not a done deal by any means. I'm looking at more displacement to help the off boost situation. I have about 75,000 kms riding the original Turbo back in the 80's and it was a slug until the boost hit.
Shaving all that weight will certainly help with the off boost response. It's more of a future project, I don't have a lot of room for all these extra motors kicking around so I'd like to get the parts sorted and cleared out.
I'd like to have a 900 cylinder block & pistons in a box with the block painted and machined precisely to give me 8.2:1 CR. A direct bolt it in at anytime in the future.
Obviously stuffing a 900 crank into the cases is a lot more work and why I'm leaning towards a 738. Coincidentally that is the same displacement of the Kawasaki Turbo.
What I was alluding to earlier about a longer stroke misaligning things was the interference raising the carbs 4mm higher. Presently the larger turbo petcock mounted on the 650RJ tank just fits in there.
That 4mm would keep the tank from fitting into position.

The easiest approach is to use the Turbo frame as it accommodates the mounting of the turbo down between the centre stand pedestals, they are more widely spaced to allow for it.
Another frame will require a lot more work to make the stock Yamaha turbo stuff fit. Frankly, when I look at the 900 frame it is really no different than the other XJ's unless the tubing is perhaps thicker.

Sounds interesting. Over here in US and Canada we never got the 900 Diversion so no cheap parts to play with.
I actually rented one in Norway one vacation. Put about 5,000 kms on it, great bike.

 

67mm barrels from the 900.
It needs to be shortened to fit the 52.4 stroke, then honed and maybe new rings.
Tapped for the knock sensor and painted shiny black of course.


this is the scrapped XJ650Turbo motor I have.
I've named it swamprat.
Swamprat is just a bench motor to determine how much to shorten that 900 block.
I didn't even bother to try turning this. Its soaking now with pure acetone.
I need these barrels and pistons off

Stripping down swamp rat and the 900 restocked my shim inventory.
I'm ready for anything between 260 and 290.

 

knock sensor has tapered threads, I need to find the right tap

 

Yay for using a pipe tread. Good sealing; no gasket needed.

 

Hmmm, forged pistons...
Re the jugs from the 900, are you sure the "holes" in the 650 cases will let them in?
Surely nothing to seal around the knock sensor? It's all about hard mounting isn't it?

 

I need to free the block from Swamprat to find out.
Aluminum stands no chance against me and my die grinder, LOL.

 

+1 A common "adjustment" in the scootering world.

 

My neghbour used to race a steel framed, twin thunderrace engined autograss special, with sleeved and overbored jugs (and upgraded cams). He blew one, was going to fit the overbored top end on a standard case, and asked me to die grind the case to make it fit. What about the swarf - you'll need to strip it says I. No way no time, no skill etc etc.
So I suffed it with greased up rags, and attacked it, with advise to "hang it upside down from a loader, stick the pressure washer lance in and let go", then paraffin wash and build it quick.
It worked fine, but it was his risk.

 

Vacuum while cutting.

 

The 650 turbo cases have 75 mm holes.
The outside diameter of the 900 (67mm) cylinders is 72.5 mm so lots of clearance.
The battery was dead in my digital calipers but it appears the 900 block and the Turbo block are both around 77 mm height.
I was not expecting this, I need to get a new battery so I can take more precise measurements.
It also appears that both motors measure 90 mm from the crank centre to the top of the cases.
900 pistons are quite a bit shorter than the Turbo's.
Turbo has a thicker metal base gasket. 900 has typical thinner fiber base gasket.
As I dig deeper I'll compare the rods.
I suspect the 900 barrels may need to be shimmed higher to achieve 8.2:1 CR.
A 738 might be easier to build than I thought.

 

You need a dial caliper so you don't have to rely on batteries.

 

I put the 650Turbo piston and the 67mm piston together with the same wrist pin.
This makes a visual comparison easy.

 

900 and Turbo wrist pins

 

Putting my junk motors aside for the moment I thought I would try tuning my carbs again only to find #1 refuses to fire at all on the idle circuit.
Being #1 I had access so I removed the mixture screw and pulled the throttle slide.
I tried a last ditch effort and sprayed carb cleaner where I could. No dice, no fire.
I verified it has good spark and even changed the plug with #4.
Unfortunately I will have to pull the carbs back off to deal with #1 again.
Good thing I'm in no hurry, very disappointing though.
But hey, on the positive side 3 of the 4 are performing great.
I know it kicks in on the mains and runs then.

 

You can sneak the #1 carb bowl off and get the pilot jet out with a 90º ratcheting screwdriver and the appropriate bits.

If you're good at pulling carbs it's not worth the effort though.

 

I wouldn't say I'm good at pulling carbs, these were a real bitch to install.
This is very tempting but I think its gonna need another soak in the ultrasound tank.
I had them vapour blasted after the ultrasound last time, maybe this left sand behind.
I did rinse and blow them with air after.
Have a look at this guy's video. I love how he flows the fluid through.
This video has a language alert.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...os/search?q=cleaning+mikuni+carbs&FORM=HDRSC4

 

Vapor blasting uses baking soda or other water-soluble media.

 

OK that is good to know.
I'm not going to use the same WD40 brand cleaner from last time. That left the aluminum black.