SIMPLE MOD MAY SOLVE POD TUNING HARDSHIPS!

I'd first start with mods that are reversible before moving on to non-reversible.

I figure I could try it with the 650 that will arrive in the spring since there is no title for it. I can't register it in NY til I find a good titled frame, I already have enough other xj's to ride and work on, have another 650 that is being prepped to sell, probably not going to go back to keeping a 650, and so may as well use this one as a guinea pig.....and will help the xj pod-knowledge base either way.....and won't inconvenience anyone either.
Dave F

 

Heck yes.

I still think the rubber stacks are going to provide the best solution.

Let's see. Go Dave.

 

I can do it without drilling into the carbs.

However::::

The process never was / is not / still ain't: Irreversible.

There's a whole world of PLUGS in the event you'd need some.
But, now I don't.

(Type "D" or Type "T")

http://www.rubbergrommets.com/products/ ... et_bumpers

 

Hey folks, I'm Joe from south Texas. I was given an 82 xj650 project bike last year and want to get it running. I googled the bike and found your site, very impressive. I'm new to this world but very eager to learn. I enjoyed this string and look forward to the results. Thanks

 

Well since no one stepped up, I'm diving in. I'll be working on the mod this weekend. Earlier in the tread I posted mine was running fine. Well my commute doesn't require me to go past 55. But I decided to take it up a bit and the bike topped out at 70MPH. Did a plug chop after hitting 70mph and sure enough, I'm running lean. So I decided to try it. As for everyone splitting hairs on being irreversible, it is totally reversible. The carb won't look the same but will still perform the same if you decide to reverse the process. Rick, I'll be in touch to let you know the outcome.

 

Still working this out to be able to abandon the Mood and return to Normal.

This is my latest look at the Drawing Board.

A Small 1/4" Hole is Drilled into the Center Plate of the POD.
A short length of 1/4-Inch Copper Tubing is run from this drilled hole to the Front of the Pod; leaving 3/4" of of Tubing protruding at the Rear of the Pod.

The protruding end is secured to the Pod.
An Internal Star Serrated Locking Washer is forced onto the Tubing; preventing the Tubing from further movement and locking the Tubing in place.

A 1/4" OD Vinyl Hose i s inserted into the Atmosphere Port to a depth of one inch.
The Hose is SEALED into the Atmosphere Vent with Silicone Caulk or RTV Sealant.

Once the Sealant cures; the Hose is connected to the Copper Tubing.
The Atmosphere Vent is now isolated from pressure lowering air-flow across its opening.

Once the Pod is Mounted, ... withdraw the Tubing until kinks and Slack is removed.
Reposition Locking Ring.

Shorten Protrusion to acceptable length for affixing Foam Filter.
Attached sufficiently pimped foam element to tubing end.
Glue it.

 

somebody just f***en do it already

 

haha +1

 

Or a guy could just run the stock rubbers on the pods. Since those are what preform the magic of the airbox. Why does everybody here over-think everything? K.I.S.S.- Keep It Simple Stupid

 

+1+1+1

 

In the manner of Keeping it Simple:

If the Stock Rubbers are left on, ...

What keeps the Pod from falling off?

::: The idea of retaining the Airbox Boots was presented in an earlier Thread about the necessity to defeat Turbulence and Intake Horn Vortices :::

::: THIS Thread is for Performance Improvement that does not include Velocity Stacks, Rubber Boots and such.
This is what to do to Improve Performance running Naked Pods. :::

::: Refined to EXCLUDE the need for DRILLING into the Carb Body -- to eliminate what some have labeled "Irreversibly Damaging" the Carb. :::

 

Awesome motorheaded! I look forward to seeing the outcome, Glad you're manning up and giving it a shot. I pretty much have to do this on my Honda 650 NH because we have even more issues running pods and tuning than you all do but I'm not at that point in my build yet. My hope is honestly to just make it easier to tune, and once tuned, working properly throughout the throttling cycle without hiccups. I appreciate this thread a lot and the hack goes well you will be saviors on the NH forums as well.

 

Rick, if you look at the picture in my sig, there is a metal lip on the pod where the rubber that came with the pod sits in. The factory rubber airbox boots have grooves where they fit into the airbox. They are a perfectly tight match to put the pod on the boot. Takes about 3 minutes to do all four and is as simple as it gets.

 

I think your Honda NightHawk is equipped with Mikuni's.

The Mikuni's have a different arrangement for supplying Main AIR to surround the Emulsion Tube.

On some Mikuni Carbs, the Main AIR Jet is situated in a separate orifice on the Intake Horn.
Insuring that the Main AIR Jet has undisturbed atmosphere present will require running air to the AIR-Jet orifice, ... too.

 

I'll try to scan the carb pages of my manual when I get to the carb part of my build to let you have a look. I'm working on my friends 82 650 seca which is actually how I stumbled across this great forum so all this stuff is still great info. My carbs look alot like his and have that same kidney shaped hole so I assumed they worked the same.

 

Has anyone made any headway on this mod??

 

Hitachi's:
Require Atmosphere Vent ONLY.
(MAIN Air Jet located beneath Rubber Diaphragm)

Mikuni:
Requires Atmosphere Vent
:: and ::
Main Air Jet Vent, ... too.
(Main Air Jet located just inside Rim of Intake Horn.

 

So has this experimental work around been produced and proven efficacious? I am curious for my own build; I was hoping to put pod filters on my hard back bobber (since the original airbox will no longer fit). I am pleased with the dedication you have shown to this forum and this experimental fix Rick. I am just hoping that somebody could verify the method. I will undertake the operation on my carburetor if nobody else will

 

Has anyone tried those dual pod k&n's? Instead of one per cylinder you get one per 2 cylinders.

 

I'm happy someone's going to give it a shot.

The whole idea is to supply a missing piece to the Naked Pods dilemma.

Once the issue of Insufficient Atmosphere is resolved; there's other factors to deal with in Fine Tuning.

AIR Jet size might be an issue.
Diaphragm Piston Internal Pressure Orifice may need resizing.
Before its over, ... the Air-bleed holes in the Emulsion Tube may need to be increased in number, ... by adding more holes, in the vacant quadrants, to Increase Air Flow and Atomize an Increased Volume of Main Jet Fuel.

 

I am waiting on my pod filters and I am going to try the vinyl tubing method sealed into the atmosphere vents; I will update on the progress and my relative success

 

I have a Set of Stock Emulsion Tubes salvaged from various Parts Carbs.

I have a machinist at the local Tech School who said he'd drill new holes in the quadrants between the stock holes.

PM me with your address and I'll send them to you when he gets them done.

If the Bike-Gods deem us worthy; the Lean Condition presented by running naked Pods will become a thing of the past.

 

Well RickCoMatic, did the BIKE-GODS deem you worthy??? grunt 007, 81'XJ 750 Seca R, Mi.

 

The "Real World -- On-a-bike" trials are still incomplete.
But, excited about the prospect; I'm having a set of E-Tubes customized.

We are presently discussing whether we should just duplicate a second set of Air Holes in the quadrants not drilled.

Drill a set of Holes at the same "Height", ... but, incrementally increase the diameter a size as we drill the new set of holes.

Re-drill ALL the Tubes to have the Holes enlarged a step fm Bottom to Top?

 

I'm interested in seeing if the e-tube hole enlargement is worth it. I know that when I had first ran my bike without pulling that little guy out, it was really crappy. After cleaning the holes out and polishing it made a huge difference.

What happens if the holes get too big? Could you then re jet smaller? Or chuck in trash.

Side note: I tore my engine down for some work, and after 3000 hard riding miles with the velocity pods there is no sign of hot spots on the pistons or valves. No lean condition. Future will bring my own thread with pics.

 

There would obviously be a "Point of Diminishing Results"

Therefore, I won't enlarge the Metering Holes at first.
Just increase their number.

The idea is to INCREASE Siphoning.
Too much AIR will "Out-siphon" the Main FUEL Jet Supply.
Just worsening the Lean Condition.

 

Would you try then an only slightly larger main fuel jet (than stock) after increasing the # of holes? The idea being to draw more fuel after the point of the jet?

 

Are we talking about pods on a XJ650? I don't know about you guys but my bike runs perfect and has pods. I tossed a pic in my gallery of my fresly rebuilt carbs. My bike starts perfect, idles perfect, and rips and roars perfect through the whole powerband right up to red perfect.
There was no magic involved at all. I just read alot of posts and found a few people out there who had the correct setup, then did what they did.
one size up #41 on the pilots and #118 mains.
Then it is mandatory to buy a can of carb dip, it is available at the parts store, it looks like a 1 gallon can of paint and is the only real way to perfect a carb without a sonic tank. The second mandatory item is compressed air. Remove EVERYTHING and soak in the carb dip, then blow everything out with compressed air and use a nylon brush to clean everything you can get to. assemble with perfection and new gaskets/ seals and reap the fruits of the labor, the first time through. Check my gallery to see how they turn out with the dip, these were some ugly, poor running mama's before the rebuild.

 

Tech50, I am on the pods side of this debate. There are a lot of folks here who say you are gonna melt your pistons down if you run pods. I don't believe it, and I have proof. So this is just an ongoing debate of what the "best" pod set up is.

 

Reading this thread was like watching a movie with no ending. All this drama and suspense and debate and no final conclusion. Not even an attempt. I feel cheated and would like a refund for the cost of admission please.
On a serious note I do hope that there's an eventual trial of this theory. I'm quite intrigued to know it it works even though I plan on sticking with my stock airbox.

 

Its not a movie, it's a serial soap opera. You will HAVE to check back next week to see if.........

 

Ok, now it would seem that now I have heard about all on the Pod issue. Years ago I picked up I believe a 750 Honda which had been modified with Pods but they had gone further than that to get the output of POWER! I picked it up for $300 and it looked like new! Problem was they couldn't get it to run with out Popin and Pissin. I worked on that bike all winter tuning the carbs with my stick, (filled with Mercury back then), wish I had kept it, they were the best. By the time Spring came that Sucker was running so Hot that the first time I took it out of the garage it went right out from underneath me and dumped me in the grass. (But did it run GREAT to say the least. The next morning I had a man at my shop door with $1,300 cash in hand that wanted the bike! I sold it and regret it to this day. It had Pods on it, flamed out tank and even though the carbs were different than the Yamaha they posed no problem to the performance. To this day I don't even know how the buyer knew I had that bike, I never advertised it for sale? grunt007, 81' Yamaha 750 Seca, Mi. I still have a picture of it but I still don't know how to properly get a picture on this site??????

 

How PODS perform on Bikes other than XJ-Series Yamaha Bikes equipped with different Carbs isn't at issue.

Getting the BEST Performance that can be achieved on Yamaha XJ-Bikes with Hitachi CV Carbs is the matter in question.

 

Ok I have read thought this thread and will start getting the parts to mod the pods they only cost 20 w shipping. I do notice a lean on my engine no matter what I do to mixture screw. And if I could get the engine from running so hot would help out. Rick you help me once and I take your theory and will do my best to put it to the test. Just will have to give me time. I know how important it is to have proper mixture for a long running engine. I am a mechanic by trade and love a Good challenge. Rick If you could PM me with that drawing I could try to tweak design and get a final working product.

 

After brain storming last night I’m come up with a little easier way that will do nothing to the carburetor and is totally reversible. I was talking with my welder, throw some ideas at him. We came up with instead of using tubing and RTV. We will get the thinnest metal that he has which is 32guage tin. Modify it so that it will fit into the orifice; there will be a tab that will come off . This tab will sit in between the pod boot and the carburetor outer wall, securing it to the carburetor when you tighten down the pod. The tub that was made will continue through the end of the pod exiting in a circular hole same diameter as the orifice opening that will then be soldiered to the end cap it will protrude about .25 in out. I will get a drawing up once I finish my morning Formation and have a few min to draw up and will start construction this week and once I have them complete will have pics and after running conditions posted. Right now I’m lean white plugs. Will keep you guys posted and if anyone has and other ideas or would like to put some input would be great.

 

I can't wait to hear more on this! Excellent work gentlemen

 

here is a quiet paint drawing that i completed to ilistrate what im talking about. i have the metal and will start to bend and take pictures as i prossed. the mod will be clamped between the flange and the boot. the tub will be pushed the hole that is cut in the top of the filter. any questions ask away. will make it as easy to make as possible. just want to stop my engine from running lean

 

Ok all the prosses has started here are some of my first prototype shaping. I have to take a little off the tub and try again. Its Just a little bigger than opening. Whats your guys input. I still need to put the upper tab that will sacure it to the carb but besides that its coming together.

 

Here is a finished one. i have to make the jig to make them faster. but there is no modification needed to be done to carb. a very snug fit in the port.

 

Are you going to put filters on the tube end that protrudes?

 

Yes there will be a grommet that will surround the exit hole were the pipe comes out and a small filter screen on or in the end of the pipe. Once I make the jig needed to make them faster than 1 hour each. I will get the remaining concerns that come up solved. This is just the prototype #1. Minor mod needed to make it look better

 

I've been looking at the K-Cup Screen Filter that comes with the Kuerig Cofee Maker.

But this place has something that will do the Filter trick.

http://www.anrodscreen.com/filters.html

 

Very much so will work it some was once I finish I'm going to get a colortune and hopefully get it ready tuned would like to find a guy with a Dyno to really tune it and have physical proofto show for the design and it working

 

There isn't enough "Tuning Parameters" on the 30 year old Bike to warrant bringing the Bike somewhere for Dyno improvement.

1.) The Mixtures are NOT software tunable.
2.) The Timing and Advance Curve cannot be reprogrammed. There's NO way to hook-up the Bike to anything but Battery Charger.

Rather than pay to have the Dyno-run, ... Just do what you can to Tune your Bike to within the small margin of performance alteration available.

Plug Chop.
Tweak the Pilot Mixtures Screws to a Point where they are acceptably lean.
Once the Mixture Screws are set to allow the Bike to IDLE -and- run well at the initiation of OFF IDLE, ... you have about 6 -to- 10 Degrees of what amounts to a Tuning Preference.

 

Well the jig is make and working great just need time now to finish the build. Getting the colortune and will ride hard the way it is now. Then put the tubs in and tune the beat I know how to. I planon having the final test done over this weekend I have four days off. I plan of finishing and giving my final write up. The real question come to if they really work who would be interested in getting some I know the first one took me little over 2 hours to make and manipulate to fit in the port and soldier together. I'm thinking if they do work I can make for people and sell. Probely powder coat different colors and make kits and half kits. What is everyone's oppionion on the idea if they do work who would want them. I may set up a poll if the do work and I can feel a difference and notice a better balanced bike.

 

I would probably buy a kit from you

 

Forget the 'tuning' part, put it on the dyno with the tubes removed and the holes in the pods taped over.
Get a print out of the power curve with the mixture curve shown as well.

Fit tubes then:

Get a print out of the power curve with the mixture curve shown as well.

Sit down and analyze what you have.

Plug chops are great, but when you are making mods that effect certain parts of the fuel curve (pods and slide offset pressures) a quick dyno run is better than a plug chop every 1,000 through to redline.

 

As far as a filter for testing purposes...small rubber band and panty hose will suffice...

 

I will be finish the this weekend just have to find a Dyno prop when I go to a bike week event I will get that done. But the filter is a breather foam that is cut into a circle and inserted the end. I have the jig and it going good just need to get a little time to finish. Will give a write up on before performance and after performance

 

I can't wait to hear the results and am definitely interested in a kit if it works out