starter clutch issues

on the vee-twins the BODY cracks at the guide slots from the engine kicking back against the starter; not sure if that's as common on the XJs.

 

Is this technique of getting to the starter clutch through the alternator some sort of cruel secret joke you guys play on newbies!?!
I got everything apart but I don't see for the life of me how you are supposed to be able to do anything with the clutch like that! HELP!!! I don't want to split the cases!

1983 XJ750MK Midnight Maxim

 

i'am with you there, i tried and failed myself
look at it this way, that stuff you took off will need to be off when you split the cases anyhow
it might be one for Myth Busters

 

Send a Private Message to Member:

redcentre3

He has successfully done the short-cut and may be able to assist you.

 

That so called short cut CANNOT be done, bite the bullet & split the cases.
Have you put an endoscope in there to see if the hub is cracked? if it is, which is most likely your problem, the 'short cut' would not help you anyhow. Wiz............

 

It is the PERSONAL OPINION of a Member that the procedure cannot be done.

It is the Practical Experience of a Member who HAS successfully accomplished the task.

It's been done.

Perhaps calling it a "Shortcut" is a mistake.
It's a do or die shot in the dark you try before splitting cases if you have the nerves and patience.

It's a great trick.
The "Pledge" is getting the Starter Clutch Fixed without Splitting Cases.
The "Turn" requires great finesse and the patience of a Saint.
The Prestige!
I've had dinner with one who earned The Prestige.

It's one of those jobs that falls into the category of Virtually Impossiblity.
Like swapping a Starter Motor on an early E-Type Jaguar without removing the Exhaust Manifold.

 

Hi Guys...here's the ORIGINAL write-up from the man who did it - member bike-man-man. Everything thing has to fit in place for it to work out. One small ooops and the short way is no longer the short way. Here's bike-man-man's original post followed by the link to the original discussion:

Yes, it is possible, however if you drop the rollers, springs, or spring caps in the crankcase, you going to have to do it the "right" way anyway...Be prepared....The keys are some patience and go slow...

I'm doing this from memory so if I left something out or you have a question, please let me know....

First I took off the starter assembly off and the alternator cover and positioned it aside...Next you must remove the stator (the big copper thing inside the cover that spins w/the engine) there's a bolt in the middle to remove, but the stator has to be pressed off the shaft, you'll have to have a special tool...I've seen them on ebay, but I modified an old harmonic balancer removal tool (the threads were the same)...If you look at the stator it has threads cast into its housing, thread the special puller bolt into that, and while turning the puller, the stator will slide off the shaft....Next, remove the three torx screws that hold the retainer plate to the case....Then, the oil spray tube can be removed...Now the tricky part, pull the shaft out of the case (the starter clutch unit will fall down) using long screw drivers separate the two halfs of the clutch mechanism....The half closest to you will have the chain wrapped around it, and half farthest from you will contain the rollers, springs, and spring caps....Using the long screwdriver, hold the farther section up higher than closer, using another screwdriver you can manipulate, and rotate the clutch/roller mechanism around to remove the three rollers, springs, and caps....A telescoping magnet will help alot...Reassemble the opposite of removal, go slow, make sure both halves of the clutch mate together properly, use a dab of grease to hold the springs, and caps together....

I will also add as a side note, as it may or may not be required to do so, but I did have the trans clutch removed while doing this, and I also unbolted the idler gear that goes between the starter and the starter clutch(this is done from the trans clutch side)....The idler gear will fall down an inch but can easily be manipulated with magnets and screwdrivers...

I think that's it....I will say, that not doing this the "right" way saved a TON of time, but it is risky, and could cause engine damage if not done correctly...I had nothing to lose, the springs cost $2 a piece, and I got the bike for $100....It now starts and runs good, although I haven't gotten to ride it yet..

If there's enough interest in this procedure, I'd be willing to do it again, and photo document everything....I will accept donations...

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=480.html

red

 

Rick I'll change your Jag starter if you fix my clutch!! lol
I sent recentre3 a pm and asked if I could borrow his magic fingers. Thanks for the advice guys! I'll let you know how things progress (or don't)

 

Red how did you seperate the clutch halves? I poked around a bit with my fingers and lightly with a screw driver but was a bit unsure of what to do there.

 

For the avoidnce of doubt, this cannot be done in the manner proscribed, the fatal flaw in the description is: "when you separate the 2 halves, the half farthest from you will contain the rollers", not so, the only part that will separate is the driven gear & bush, the rollers are then facing away from the shaft opening & cannot even be seen.
Come round to my place, Red & I will take the pictures, I have a bike all nicely exposed. Wiz.....

 

Wiz, looking at the exploded parts view it shows the springs and rollers facing toward the primary chain. I'm confused.

 

That is correct, Tomh, but the hub is bolted to the chain carrier with 3 8mm cap head screws, lock tighted & peened over, it cannot be unbolted in possition.
Rick, it is unwise & even culpable behavior to encourage members to attempt this foolhardy proceedure & how do you know that replacing the rollers, springs & guides, will cure the problem? it's unlikely.
Another misnomer, is that "if the rollers etc drop, the 'short cut' is over" why, you drop the pan off & you can poke those parts through the hole & out the bottom, all day long, like a fruit machine at Caesar's Palace & although that might be amussing, in the short term, it won't fix the starter clutch.

 

when i tried, i did everything right till i was looking it square in the eye
and i poked and jiggled and twisted and pushed for 20 minutes and made no progress
then i said "self this ain't gona work" and started taking the pipes off
and if anybody succeeds God bless ya your a better man than me
then i found the clutch in three pieces so i won

 

The Original Post, which appeared on another Site, resulted from an attempt to answer a question about Servicing the Starter Clutch without Splitting Cases.

I interviewed a highly competent Yamaha Technician and wrote what he told me could be done.

Now, there are Field Reports and Real World Experiences, we can add your experiences and comments to the Post.

 

After looking at the exploded view again, I believe the Wizzard is right..... the clutch halves are bolted together. My mechanical experience, human hands and earthly tools can't get it done this way.
I really appreciate everybody's input and after I split the cases I will take and post pics of the culprit and hopefully save someone from agonizing over this like I have.
Anybody know how much beer it takes to split the cases and get things back together again?
Seriously if there are any secret gremlins I should know about before hand, I would greatly appreciate any tips and tricks! (hint hint Wiz?)

Thanks so much guys! I'll let you know how it goes!

 

Tomh, you best ask Polock, I know he has done it the orthodox way & will gladly mark your card, as for the wiz, he has embarked on a totaly different approach. See 'project 900' in chat...........

 

yea, the chainsaw method

 

I just read through the "900 project" and I gotta say I never thought about getting the starter clutch out that way! It got me thinking though.... and I DO have a 3lb hammer around here somewhere!

 

read carefully; Wiz didn't really take a hammer to it, he cut it away.

 

LOL.... I was only joking about the hammer, Although the bonfire method keeps creeping into my mind too!
I guess I'll bite the bullet and start the engine removal and disassembling process. YUCK!

After cleaning the carbs, this bike runs awesome and idles great (when I can get the engine to turn over). Whats the possibility of getting the motor out and flipping it over and attacking the starter clutch from the bottom without disturbing the top end? (manual has not arrived yet and bike only has 10k miles on it)