starter clutch issues

You don't need to disturb the top end.

 

Got the cases split and the culprit clutch in hand. Let me say this , I am working on a 1983 XJ750MK MIDNIGHT MAXIM and there is ABSOLUTELY no way the you can replace the springs and rollers in the starter clutch on this bike through the alternator opening ..... period.......ain't gonna happen....case closed.
I took pictures and will post them when I get time but I just happen to buy a 1980 XS11 Special yesterday that has me side tracked for the moment! Guy sold it cheap because it was only running on two cylinders. One new battery and 4 new plugs and it runs like a scalded dog! YeeHaw!!

 

Tomh, is the clutch hub cracked?
What about posting a 'how to' on replacing the starter clutch, I'm sure there are a bunch of members needing to know. Wiz...........

 

The hub was not cracked but it does show wear and one of the rollers is has a slight flat spot. I have taken some pictures of the process and am now waiting on my new starter clutch to arrive. ($75 new) It might be possible to clean up the old one and put new rollers and springs in it but considering I had to completely disassemble the bottom to get to it, I'm putting a whole new clutch in it. Right now the motor is in a thousand pieces but when I get the parts and get it back together I will try to explain the process and post some pictures to clarify why this CANNOT be done through the alternator housing. I have never done one of these before so I can't say it is impossible on all XJ's but I can tell you on this 83 XJ750MK, it most definitely requires splitting the cases.

 

1983 XJ750 Midnight Maxim Starter Clutch

Yay! Happy happy joy joy! Starter clutch fixed, engine back together and bike running again. No more starter slippage.
This project was not extremely difficult but it was time consuming. About 20 hours total time involved. Probably could have done it quicker but a fellow has to drink a beer now and then.
Let it be known that I tried EVERYTHING before splitting the cases.
This was pretty straight forward wrenching but anytime you split the cases on an engine you need to be somewhat mechanically inclined or experienced or have a buddy that is. This is probably not a project for a beginner mechanic. Attention to detail and a shop manual is a must for torque specs and reference.
As for replacing the springs and rollers through the alternator housing, I say BULL FEATHERS! Not on this motor! Not to offend anyone who says they can do it but I would have to see it to believe it! I took some pictures and if you look at all of them and reference what you're looking at by where the primary chain is, I think you can see why I say it's impossible to do it through that little opening. Heck I would like to see somebody just put the springs and rollers in with two screwdrivers with the clutch laying on the bench!
If anybody has any questions, feel free to ask. This forum is such a great resource I'll be happy to give a little back.

 

I tried to add the photos and could not get them to show up. I guess I'm better at wrenching than pushing buttons. Anybody that wants the pics let me know. (or if someone cares to tutor me on posting them I'll put them up)
For now the pictures can be seen in my album "Starter Clutch Pictures"

Link to pictures:
http://xjbikes.com/coppermine/cat=16384.html

 

Make sure you replace the starter chain tensioner while you are in there, they do rot out and do the parts dance all over the transmission gears, ensuring a locked up tranny.

 

So, I am bringing this back instead of starting a new thread. When the starter clutch is bad, does the starter makes a bad grinding without turning the engine? My bike, only when hot, time to time when I hit the start button it just grinds nasty, but will start the next 2 or so times attempted. Is that the starter clutch or maybe the starter itself. My bikes an 82 750 Maxim with about 15,000 hard p o miles.

 

I should add I have put 500 miles on the bike since it sat for a number of years and passed through 3 of my friends hands "trying" to get it running, I have changed the oil 3 times since this early spring, I use Vavoline 20 50 wet clutch oil.

 

When the clutch is bad it makes an awful racket. Sounds like grinding/clacking/rattling all at the same time. Mine would work maybe one out of 10 times. Usaually a bad starter either doesn't work at all or barely turns the engine,
The seafoam in the crankcase trick helped a tiny bit on mine but when I took it apart you could see scarring on the clutch and rollers so it had obviously been slipping quite some time. If your bike just started doing this it might be worth it to try the seafoam crankcase flush. It may be that your starter clutch has got gunk in it and it is gummed up from bad/dirty oil over the years.
As a side note, make sure you're using MOTORCYCLE oil. Regular oil has additives of all kinds that can effect your starter clutch as well as your transmission clutch.
Good Luck and let us know how it goes.

 

Thanks, it just started doing this to me, the oil is for motorcycles, I am hoping it is just gunked but have my doubts, I hate to change the oil again so soon it is becoming costly!! I will try the seafoam and try to get to the starter clutch to shoot with solvent as suggested earlier in this thread. Thanks

 

I made a wd40 spray tube out of some flexible clear tubing that would fit over the little red tube that comes with the can and worked it in and around as good as I could from both sides of the engines. Still didn't fix it, but it was worth a try.(I already had the alternator out trying to figure out how to change rollers and springs like was mentioned here.....but that's another story)

 

Good picture links, Tomh, for those of us, like you & I, Tomh, who have actually been in there, KNOW without any shade of doubt, that the so called quick fix is a figment of RickCoMatic's imagination, because, as you point out, the rollers face AWAY from the generator. I am still awaiting an apology from said RCM, for stating that it was just my lack of skill that precluded me from carrying the fictional SHORT CUT. I further point out that the $500 reward from Chacal still remains unclaimed & always will.

 

Hi Folks,

I've left my job of 10 years recently and have been "on the road" touring around my fine country for a few months.

It seems there has been a bit of controversy brewing about the starter clutch repair.

Sounds like we need to tone things down a bit on some of these posts mainly because all those involved have come at the topic from a well meaning direction and are just trying to help others.

Rather than focussing too much on individuals and their posts/opinions, and even if it wasn't intended, making it sound like a personal attack on that member for holding a particular view, we need to focus back on the issue itself.

Below is a link to the original post on this topic from bike-man-man from Texas in 2006. His post details how he changed the springs on his XJ's starter clutch. No-one said it was easy. And one person's level of skill and fine motor skills may be different from another's.

But we have to take on board the detailed nature of the post and the instructions. If the prospect of attempting to go through the alternator housing fills you with uncertainty and dread at dropping something inside the crankcase...DON'T DO IT. If you believe this method is un-achievable...DON'T DO IT. Don't even start the exercise. Take the longer route of splitting the crankcase or cut through the top of the crankcase above the starter clutch mechanism.

From time to time we may come across solutions on the forum to simple or complex problems and those solutions prove not to work...for you/me. And it has happened to me. Following someone else's route to fixing something ended in a dead end for me. But that's not to say it was impossible. Nor was it a trigger to have a go at the member who was trying to be helpful.

I'm not sure how it is on other bikes but Yamaha's design and location of the starter clutch and the lack of serviceability creates a situation of looking for alternative fixes. I guess the Yamaha geniuses decided that the starter clutch would outlast the serviceable life of the bike itself. Well, hell, haven't we proved them wrong!!! ;-)

How about we just agree to disagree on the process. Firstly, if you have this problem, research the topic to exhaustion. Then, those that want to try the alternator housing method have the instructions to give it go. If you're not convinced this is for you...take the safe and sure route of splitting the cases. Simple...a personal decision based on available facts.

But let's keep this about helping others and not about running other members down or offering rewards, even if it is with the very best of intentions...sometimes, it just doesn't come across that way in the written word. Far different if we were sitting around shooting the breeze over a beer and chatting face to face.

For me, back on the road for a few weeks then a new job and being a more regular contributor to this fine forum!

Bike-man-man's original 2006 post is at the link below:


http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=480.html

 

Stuff the link, Red, are you now saying you attempted the quick fix, but didn't achieve it ? if so tell Rick, because he has hung a whole lot on your testimony. PM me & fix up a date for a face to face chat, now you are back in town. Wiz.

 

I don't get it, still.

Aren't the screws facing the wrong way to be able to do it that way? Wiz, didn't you take pics after you "bashed in the roof" on the 900? Weren't the screws facing outward? Did you save the pics?

Go back and read the post that everyone claims is proof. "I'm doing this from memory" is the phrase that jumps out. Memory of what, a Kawi or a Honda? "Twarn't an XJ; maybe an XS or a Virago, I don't know. Seems the memory missed the detail of the clutch being bolted to the backing flange from the other side, unless he was remembering a bike that ISN'T built that way.

I looked in the fiche; and physics is physics. You can't get to the springs and rollers from the back without unbolting the clutch from the plate it's bolted to. The bolts face the right and come out to the right. They can't even be seen from the left, except maybe their "butts." there's no way you can get to them from their backside. I don't see how it can even be disputed.

It's not like we're discussing the effectiveness of YICS; this one's kinda clear cut.

I don't get it.

I'd join you for that beer but I'm like 15000 miles away, according to Google maps.

 

Interesting Fitz, red Centre NOW says he didn't actually manage the short cut fix, so all we have is the unsigned how to, which is either wishful thinking or just a out & out fraud. before getting into the technical issues that you outlined, something jumps right out, where the guy says "if you drop a roller the fix is all over" why ? drop the pan & you can drop those suckers through all day. & yes you nailed the flaw in the cunning plan, once you get to sight the s~clutch through the tiny gen'orifice, the rollers, pins & springs are facing away from you. Chacal has tried this method with the cases SPLIT & still couldn't do it. It's time "quick fix"was put away forever, never to be mentioned again, it just gives people false hope when there is none. I wasted hours trying to do this, while some smart ass was laughing his tits off at my distress. Feel free to jump in here Rick.

 

I don't think it was a hoax. There are other, similarly designed Yamahas, that the clutch appears to be separate enough to pull it off. Just not an XJ650/750/900. The guy said it was from memory, he was probably remembering a different bike is all.

I looked in all three fiches. It just ain't happening. The rollers, pins and springs are not only facing the other way, they're on the other side of the deeply flanged plate that the clutch is bolted to.

Glad you found the pic. Now somebody explain how to disengage the sprocket from the chain, pop the clip, get the sprocket out of the way and then turn the assembly on the OTHER SIDE AROUND so you can get to the rollers and springs.

Long screwdrivers be damned. He had to be "remembering" a different bike.

 

When I was Moderating another defunct JX-Forum, over 8 years ago, the question was raised if there was some way to service the Starter Clutch without a total engine tear-down.

I went and interviewed a Yamaha-schooled Factory Technician.

I wrote a piece detailing the process he explained to me while we were both looking at a 900 schematic.

The article has bounced-around and subsequent to its first appearance, elsewhere, has been added too and revised by those who attempted the feat.

After being informed that the process did, in fact, ... work quite well, I posted the article, here, where questions regarding its authenticity have sparked a wildfire.

I authored the original article, which appeared elsewhere, which two people said they they used to successfully overhaul their starter clutches.

Now, we arrive at the point where a familiar chorus claims that the process is impossible and that its something I dreamed-up.
NO. I merely reported what was presented as fact.

Now, I'm on the horns of a dilemma.
I can't prove it works.
Can''t prove it don't.

But, for the record ... let's say that until someone comes along with the PROOF that is DOES work; I yield to those who claim it does not.