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Starter Clutch Replacement - Help

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by XJGypsy, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. XJGypsy

    XJGypsy New Member

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    Im having the dreaded starter clutch spins when my 83 xj750 is warms. It cold starts just fine but after warming up and running for a while it spins out and I have to pop start it. Ive read the threads on changing springs without removing or splitting the motor and wonder, if I buy the whole assembly
    ....can I change the clutch part without the sprocket and shaft without pulling the motor?

    Seems like thats the part that will fall when pulling it that way and most likely the failed part...can Anyone Please help on this issue before I tear into the 7th circle of hell...Thanks to All Who Reply... Screenshot_2017-10-03-02-44-49.png
     
  2. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    You cannot. If you had read the threads more thoroughly, you would have found that such a repair is not possible without splitting the engine case.

    To help make sure that you don't need to rebuild the starter clutch (don't buy the whole assembly), let's start at step one.

    What oil are you using?
    Is it JASO MA compliant?
     
  3. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    just forget that it's impossible
     
  4. XJGypsy

    XJGypsy New Member

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    Not sure what JASO MA compliant is, will have to look it up...I was informed to only use non-synthetic oil from the beginning and have stuck to that religiously...


     
  5. XJGypsy

    XJGypsy New Member

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    Had to look again but the oil I have in it now is Castrol 20 50 non-synthetic and looking it up, looks to be compliant...
     
  6. XJGypsy

    XJGypsy New Member

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    Bike-man-man seemed to be able to change springs without splitting the motor, I pm'd him as well and curious if anyone else has had luck with that or if he was the only one...also curios if a larger battery or ignition module might solve the issue? Odd that it starts perfect Every time from a cold start and only spins out after its warmed up...could it be its not generating enough power when its running?

     
  7. Stumplifter

    Stumplifter Well-Known Member

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    You need for it to say "Motorcycle" on the bottle - Castrol makes both 20-50 motor oil and motorcycle oil JASO MA... no friction modifiers blah blah blah blah.
     
  8. XJGypsy

    XJGypsy New Member

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    It definitely is the motorcycle oil, I grt it from the local import bike shop...just wasnt positive of the brand til I looked again...
    Ive been through all of the trouble shooting that Ive seen on the threads and pretty positive that the clutch is the issue...unless it working fine cold is a sign of something Im missing. Like possible a possible battery or ignition module upgrade. I have the recommended open cell battery and an old oem module...curious if theres an upgrade to either that might work?
    If not its back to the original question...and what to do with the clutch...

     
  9. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    The battery can be a factor, the ignition module (TCI) would not be.

    How old is the battery and have you done a load test on it; measure the battery voltage when the starter is engaged?

    Also, has the starter been refurbished? The starter, battery, and their corresponding connections are very important to ensure sufficient speed is obtained for the free wheeling clutch to properly engage.

    And just to be clear here the "spins out" needs to be clarified. Normally, the sound of a defective starter clutch can be described as a box of rocks sound where the motor actually stops turning when the starter is engaged. A weak battery is a very common problem on the XJ's where the starter spins and the motor turns but the bike will not start because of insufficient coil voltage to produce an adequate spark.
     
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  10. jayrodoh

    jayrodoh YimYam Premium Member

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    I can't find a member named bike-man-man, can you share this thread? I'm interested in reading it.
     
  11. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    I think you have the user name wrong. Regardless, that information is incorrect for the XJ series of engine. It can be done on some of the XS series engines.
    This is literally a discussion that ran on for over a year, and was settled long, long ago. The closest thing that was ever done required cutting a hole in the case, and turning the cut-out piece into a hatch. IIRC, the engine didn't run for very long after that.

    Rooster gave you the next steps to follow. If that doesn't solve the issue, you will be spiltting the cases, and rebuilding the starter clutch (check the body for cracks), as well as replacing the alternator chain guide before it breaks apart on you (they age-out after about 30 years).
     
  12. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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  13. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    I stand corrected. The discussion ran-on for over half a decade.
    It's been years since I read that thread.
     
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  14. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    it would seem to me the battery would be more of a cold start, sat for a while problem. not a hot engine just ran recently problem.
    next time you come home, while it's hot and slipping, jump it with your car
     
  15. XJGypsy

    XJGypsy New Member

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    Good idea Polock...it just seems odd that its not All the time and only when its warm.
    Rooster, I rebuilt the starter,after it started happening, with oem parts and ot is running well and correctly...and yes, to clarify, its the box of rocks sound while the starter is still engaged...I will check the battery with Polocks idea and see if I can get a meter to test the voltage while its cranking and give you an update...
    Is it a common problem for it to Only happen when the bike is warm? Or is that an indicator of another problem? Seems to be an issue with these models but havent seen any answers on that...great bike but shes gotta get through this split motor or not...
    I'll see if I can forward the feed with bike-man-man that was my first stop on this journey and want to make sure Ive exhausted All possibilities before I tear into splitting the motor...much appreciated for All of your help and will keep you posted on the progress

    Ps. Thanks fiddles for the reading material too...will be doing my homework for sure...
     
  16. XJGypsy

    XJGypsy New Member

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  17. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    That seems like a good plan. I also wanted to add that when reading back through some of the post bigfitz52 noted the issue on his 550 was actually caused by the solenoid with the theory that it was pitted / corroded and not passing enough current to the starter for it to spin at max speed. He then mentioned he replaced it with an electronic version, which I am not familiar with. After reading that, perhaps you should also try jumping the solenoid with a screwdriver or even consider replacing it.
     
  18. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    What he's describing simply is not feasible unless the starter clutch has enough wear that the two halves split apart easily ( in which case the starter clutch assembly needs to be replaced). Again, the collective had this discussion, and there are only two cases reported of it working; one a second-hand account years after the event (though reported by a reliable source), and the thread you reference by a person who disappeared shortly after, and showed no evidence. If you wish to attempt that method please document it thoroughly, post a How-To thread in the DYI section, and keep in mind that the 30+ year old alternator chain guide is still in the engine, ready to blow apart due to being aged-out of its service life.
     
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  19. Kevin Dirksen

    Kevin Dirksen New Member

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    Guys, I’m new here and have been reading the threads on starter clutch issues. Maybe you might be able to shed some more knowledge on where else I should look.

    1982 XJ750R Seca.

    When I first purchased the bike I bought a new battery and cranked right over. After rebuilding the carbs I began to crank a little longer on it. Thus the starter and idler gear not engaging the starter clutch. I don’t get the box’s of rocks sound just the starter running and once in awhile if I just touch the starter button I can get it to catch and then jump out.

    What I’ve tried so far.
    Took the clutch out to be sure that it’s working properly. Checked the solenoid get the clicking noise used a car battery to Jump to make sure I’ve got enough juice. I’ve even jumped around the solenoid and same results. However I remove the spark plugs and it turns like a champ. What should I be looking at?

    Thanks

    Kevin
     
  20. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    Took the clutch out? That's splitting the cases.

    I'd verify voltage/voltage drop when starting...
    Next-
    Verify brushes on starter.... you may be due for a starter rebuild.

    I'd go with
    1. Bad battery
    2. Bad button, or solenoid
    3. Starter issue
    4. Starter clutch

    I'd start with#1 and work my way down. Leave #4 as last choice
     

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