The Future is Now...Almost!

I agree with Ground Hugger. Have you been to a car lot recently? They have plenty of Hybrids and EV's that aren't selling because they are at least 10,000.00 dollars more than the regular cars that are already too expensive.
Not to mention finding a qualified mechanic shop that knows how to fix one, which will require a trip to the dealership for high dollar maintenance and time wasted waiting for parts to be ordered.
The real problem with the electric motorcycle in the start of this thread is the 15 to 20 mile range. You would have to live very close to work for this bike to be worth a damn.

 

It was a nice proof of concept diy bit. The Brammo empulse has a range of 100 miles and can go 100 mph (no exactly at the same time :roll: )

The problem there is thermodynamic. You simply can't get much more efficient than that with a Carnot cycle, you are limited by the highest and lowest temperatures that the materials can withstand. There was something in the news recently about taking particles below 0K, into a negative temperature range which cause heat flow to any positive temperature. But that's WAY off.

Also, making an engine more efficient usually makes it heavier, requiring more energy to lug it around.

Electrics can be very efficient (80-90%) in their management of the electricity they get/use, and power plants can get incrementally more efficient. They can also easily take advantage of regenerative braking, basically getting back useful work and storing it as energy when a drive foolishly decides to waste it coming to a stop. We are getting more efficient it would seem

Batteries are simply a voltage source with some capacity. ANY battery would work with your cell phone/laptop, that's why there is such a large after market for batteries for both, many that you simply plug into the charging port, because the device doesn't care what it's connected to as long is the voltage is correct and it keeps coming as long as it is needed.

If a different battery requires a different control scheme, that's just a s/w update.

Furthermore, how many complaints are lobbed around regarding ethanol in gasoline? Even gasoline isn't just gasoline.

Populations are increasingly moving this direction, and a lot of the solutions fitted to sub-urbanization are simply not fitting the growing trends. Look at traffic in DC, Everyone can't just drive their own car to work, it's not efficient in and of itself.

 

Ok I'll continue the deep 'E' conversation. Trying to be a profit of what the future might hold is a tricky business, just look at the changes over the last 150 years-who?? predicted any of that-maybe only one man and he just made a few drawings-Da Vinci.

Gas (oil) will definitely run out at some point-it took a long time to form and we are using it up quickly. But we can make fuel from other sources, and we will.

Maximike is right about Solar and other alternatives. If we embrace them and continue to make usage more efficient we wouldn't need the power companies except for big time users like factories-but we would need lots of batteries or centrifuges to store the power when the alt source isn't producing like it should.

So I will ignore my own warning and predict that electricity will be cheaper and more plentiful in the near future. Also that we will develop new ways of producing, utilizing, and extracting power in revolutionary ways that within 25-50 years will be fully online because we must.

But please let's keep our IC motors around so we don't have to miss all the fun they provide! 'They' said we wouldn't have books or newspapers in the near future years ago as CPU's came online-well I still buy and read both and have no plans of stopping.

 

Here something that is getting close.

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

 

Laptops and cell phones don't live anywhere as long as vehicles. Who uses a 35-year old laptop now? But even if we take a more recent model, you might have trouble finding a battery to fit it. Or a charger, for that matter. We still don't have a standard for them for cell phones.

External battery plugged into a charging port is super-hilarious in the context of a bike. Saddlebags or a sidecar?

Efficient and good aren't the same thing.

 

Wait a minute- '35 year old laptop.' I can't be sure but based on what I know about ancient computer history there is no such thing. I believe 35 years ago there weren't even personal computers or PC's available. Any old timers know for sure?? It seems like back then computers went from big to VERY BIG and HEAVY!! But of course your larger point is correct they pretty much get fazed out every 5 years or so.

But it is good to be efficient!

 

35, maybe not. However, this year is the 30th anniversary of the Compaq Portable, the 28lb monster with the powerful 286 processor.

I have seen one of those, I found it in a back of a shop where I used to work.

In terms of transportation, for public transport to be efficient you have to have high population density. That gets you human anthills such as New York City. There is a reason why I don't live there any more. I'll take inefficient individuality any day.

 

Actually there is a standard for laptop batteries....all batteries actually. Cell sizes are standardized; what isn't standardized is the case that the cells go into. What most people refer to as a battery is a collection of standardized cells that have their contacts welded together with battery straps, and are put into a plastic case. I have a laptop from '98 that I still use occasionally, and I replaced the batteries by putting a new set of cells into the old case.

Now in terms of obsolesce; have you ever tried to find a new CDI for a '75 Celica? You don't...you make a newer CDI work.

 

if the national speed limit were to dropped to 45 mph, EV's would be a lot more attractive.
Boeing could supply the battery and Briggs and Stratton could make engines

 

EV's don't need engines

 

I used to repair them. When they came out, they were cutting edge.

 

Just k-moe says with batteries, chargers are usually standardized too. You just have to know what you are looking for.

Anything that charges from a usb has a standard for the voltage and current supplied. There are many different plugs, but they all do the same thing. The form factor changes because the phones get smaller, not because of the source or the batteries. Any other charger (transformer) tells you the polarity of the plug, DC Voltage, and Current. If you can get the latter two, cut off the plug and re-wire it. Or just build one.

It's clear that while you use electronic devices, you don't really understand how they work or how to work with them. Even though you can't "see" electricity working, it's much more consistent than the complicated flow characteristics of a carburetor with pods and open exhaust.

Actually, all you need for individual transportation to be inefficient is for everyone to live spread out, but all go into the same place to work. Public transport works better elsewhere around the world, as do bikes. Just because we here in 'Merica think we always know better, doesn't mean that solutions from around the world can't work here too. And the rest of the world is researching alternative forms of energy and transportation.

Even though the speed limit is higher, average commute speeds are MUCH lower around any metropolitan area during rush hour. Going through DC, you're lucky to average 15 mph (which is why I started bicycling). We "think" we are going much faster on average, just because instantaneously we can, but in the end, the transportation needs for the majority would be better served by slower more efficient vehicles.

 

Seriously? Current is standardized? Is that why if I have the wrong car charger even with the right plug my phone will discharge if used for navigation?

Wiring up a plug? Sure. Assuming the available plug fits the device.

Look, I know anything can be wired to anything if you are willing to put up with kludges and dangling wires. Yes, I can get an older cell phone years out of production, solder up some leads and run them to a battery pack on my belt, but how usable is that going to be?

It' not the electricity, it's the hardware.

Elsewhere in the world people tend to live both closer together and closer to work. It's not that we know better, it's that the place itself is different.

And this is why I don't want to live somewhere where I get things according to needs determined by some guy I never met.

 

All those electric bikes need are a card to flip through the spokes...

 

LOL That won't work, there's no Motorcycle card company, only Bicycle.

 

all these posts about electric bikes, am i the only one who has one?

 

Here's your standards
Cell phones chargers can be proprietary because there are standards for the AC and DC sockets they plug into in order to be able to charge the device. There are two current standards for EV charging receptacles for North America: the common 110V and 120V wall plugs, and SAEj1772.

 

I've had a few. The first one I built on a bicycle frame from spares when I was in HS. I don't have one at the moment (not counting the foldable 24v scooter that I use to get back home when I need to drop one of our cars off for repairs), but a Brammo Empulse is on my shopping list (but not my buying list, so says the wife).

 

You already do. Take a look at US internet service and compare it with what you'd get if you were in France. Here we allow regionalized monopolies and pay, on average, $60/ month for "high speed" internet access. In France ISP have to compete in the marketplace and the customer pays, on average, the equivalent of $30/ month for a bundle that includes actual high speed internet, cable television, and a dedicated landline. We get crap because some guys we never met decided that's what we need, and we're happy enough to not bother doing anything much about it.


Now....back to imagining how cool it'd be to have a fusion-powered hoverbike

 

these guys are into it.
so i have a homemade bicycle you had one and now a scooter, looks like their toys at best.
if the sentiment of people could change, if battery tech made a breakthrough, if the bureaucracy could change, if the infrastructure was there and if there were no other choice, then maybe EV's would become the norm. that's a lot of if's and a maybe.
but i do like my electric bicycle but i've never come face to face with a cop on it...?

 

I pay $35. Don't have a landline or cable, no point if you have high-speed internet.

I wasn't really saying you couldn't get a charger, I used phone chargers as an example of something that changes fairly frequently.

This is all largely academic, anyway. I don't see a $10-12K bike in my future any time soon.

 

I agree that for the home-builder what you end up with isn't much more than a toy. The batteries that I was limited to using (lead acid) aren't going to be useful in a commuter motorcycle, but those are more like using a wood fired steam engine when you compare them to L ion and Li Iron batteries, which are comparable to using an ICE running on alcohol.

 

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/3060-198 ... conversion

 

And that thread points back to the bike that started this one.

There is a detailed article on it here: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =12&t=1610


Looking back at the original link, those EV guys totally live in a different world. The survey on the kit has some great choices. The range is calculated at 45 Mph, and this same 45 Mph is considered a viable option for top speed. And this is for $6500 over cost of bike. You really gotta love the electric thing to put up with that kind of performance...

 

The Zero S is a nice scooter too.

Top speed 88 mph, which means is at it's best handling, and safest at 70 or under.

To compete in traffic and on the interstate, and be desirable, a bike or a cage needs to have fast acceleration, and a higher speed than the highest speed limit.

Not for speed-demons, but for those who need to pass or speed up to dodge danger.

If I bought anything new, (too poor these days) i would buy a hybrid or electric car, and still keep and maintain the maxim

 

being buryied in the snow currently I think until they come up with an electric fullsized 4x4 and tractor to run my snowblower I think im gonna keep burnin thos dino's

 

Speaking of electric cars, my daughter just bought a new Ford Focus. The gas engine model lists for 17k and the all electric model lists for 40k. 8O That's 23k extra, so you get 8 to 10k in tax breaks, you still pay 13k more for the same car with a different motor. :roll:
Okay, you'll save a lot of money not buying gas. My daughter spends 30bux filling it with gas and since it gets 30mpg/city and 40mpg/highway, she only fills it up every week and a half at a cost of 1500bux a year. If she bought the electric, it would take about 8 years to make up the cost of gas and she would have a car that would be worth about 1k. That's not including the cost of new batteries, costs of maintenance, available mechanics with electric motor knowledge and electric fees to recharge.
All electric might be good for the environment, but it will not succeed unless it is economically competitive. The average car buyer can barely afford a gas car which is why the Hybrids and Electrics are still sitting on the lots.

 

Well said OnB! You have to do that sort of reasoning to see the benefits or lack thereof. My XJ was bought to save on gas expenses commuting (and because it's a blast to ride)-the difference is 52mpg to 15mpg, and although I can't always ride the bike for every trip, ran the numbers last week. Had the 550 since September of 2011 and it has now saved me $620 more than it cost me, but I have put $400 into it so at +220 with a nice ride!! And every week it saves me $20-30 more $.

 

Fun of riding-priceless.

 

Amen.

I diddnt buy my bike to save gas money - my escort gets between 32-37 - if i were to calculate the fuel savings, it would take a longgggggg time to re-coop the cost of the bike and what i've put into it.

But i dont care, i'm having a blast riding my XJ

 

I didn't buy mine for the fuel savings either, but that's the excuse I used for the wife to say yes. :lol:
Guess we could use it again for an electric bike, but it sure won't be that green pig in the start of this thread. :wink: A terrible injustice to a XJ.