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took the carbs to church and now I cant get the bike to start

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by NikoRx, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    Have you done running sync? If not it should start right back up while it’s still warm. You want to hook up pretty quick. If it gets cold again, you’ll have to pretty much start all over again
     
  2. NikoRx

    NikoRx Member

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    Not yet, I have a homemade manometer and tried to make my own yics tool but it doesn't fit lol.
     
  3. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    Forget about the YICS tool. You don’t need it.
     
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  4. NikoRx

    NikoRx Member

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    Why is there so much about doing it vs not doing it?
     
  5. Timbox

    Timbox Well-Known Member

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    They want to sell the tool. Many of us did like you are doing and trying it right by the book. Other on here will also say you don't need to use it. Just to the best you can without the tool and it will be close enough. Going through the effort to make or buy the tool and then use it, will not bring you measured benefits. Try it without the tool, do a good job and you will be supper happy with the results.
     
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  6. NikoRx

    NikoRx Member

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    So update, got the levels set off of the bike and put the carbs back on. the bike started back up instantly! It then revd up to 3k and as I let up on the enricher I could get it to drop down to 1500, but when I take off the enricher it just dies on me. I have decided that I will give the carbs another thorough cleaning and check all the passages but any other ideas as to what could be causing that? I took those carbs to church last summer and replaced everything that is recommended.

    My other issue is that I would hear a click from the solenoid half the time I tried to start the bike. going to rebuild the starting motor and clean the connections/relays.

    any thoughts on the first problem would be greatly appreciated!!
     
  7. Huntchuks

    Huntchuks Well-Known Member

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    It is still cool outside. Did you let the engine warm up enough to run without the enrichment being used? Sounds like not.
     
  8. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    when it starts with the choke, it running on the choke. when you shut the choke off it runs on the idle screw, maybe all you need to do is turn the idle up.
    it's going to be ruff and want to stall and race until you get a running sync started. the trick is to get it running bad so you can get a tune started
     
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  9. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    Try shorting (blade of an INSULATED screwdriver) across the two solenoid terminals............if the starter motor turns the engine over just fine, then the starter motor is okay, and the solenoid may be toast. OR.......it could be the START pushbutton on the control switch; pushing this button completes the ground circuit for the solenoid, and with no or poor ground your solenoid can spazz out as-if it were toast.


    YICS:

    https://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/yikes-all-about-the-yics-system.14757


    To review:

    According to Yamaha, the function of YICS is to promote more complete combustion at low to mid-range rpm by swirling the mixture around the combustion chamber. They never made any direct power claims -- the system was promoted as increasing mileage up to 10 percent and promoting lower emissions through a cleaner burning charge. The increase in mileage was not through leaning out the mixture -- the increase in mileage and reduction in emissions was because less throttle was required to maintain cruising speed. They could use the same cam timing, jetting, etc. (for performance) and still meet EPA regulations. Yamaha stated that the greatest effect was while cruising at 50 to 60 mph.

    The swirling accomplishes two tasks: first, it assists mechanically in atomization of the fuel and second it speeds and distributes the flame front (and therefore combustion pressure wave) more evenly throughout the cylinder. The later "Genesis" (water-cooled "X" engines) design accomplished this even more effectively through the 5-valve design, which accomplishes the same task through a wider rpm range.


    To blank or not to blank (during engine synch), that is the question. Ok, what is the function of synchronizing? Manufacturing tolerances and wear. Multiple carbs offer the advantage of increased power and performance over the single carb configuration for reasons beyond the scope of this discussion. But at a cost.....

    As each carb is dealing with a fraction of the total air and fuel flow requirement, each carb must meter things in fractions of the total. That makes for some very tiny tolerances. In effect, we have 4 separate engines -- if one is fighting the others, then we are wasting power and fuel and are worse off than we would be with a single-carb setup! So it is crucial that each one be perfectly adjusted and that all 4 then be synchronized to work in perfect harmony.

    So, how can we reliably adjust an individual carb based on the results of the adjustments, if it's companions are contributing to the results? Now, to be fair-----if the bike has been reasonably well maintained and the cylinders are all fairly close to begin with, you can usually get away without blanking the YICS passage and still achieve a reasonable state of tune (synch) At the opposite end of the maintenance spectrum, the YICS passages are often already plugged up with many years worth of accumulated grunge and grime, so the bike is effectively being tuned with the YICS system disabled and the presence of the tool is irrelevant. But we have seen some examples of carbs where one cylinder was effectively relying on its neighbors to supply most of the mixture through the YICS system, and this most certainly affects performance, especially the top end.


    A Dirty Dirty YICS; take a look for yourself:



    So, our recommendation: for an engine with approximately equal compression across the cylinders and valve clearances in spec, make sure the YICS passages are clean and use the blanking tool to tune the carbs.



    The most important point to remember:

    The pronunciation of "YICS" is "yiks", not "yikes!", no matter what anyone else tells you!
     
  10. NikoRx

    NikoRx Member

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    it was a warmer day, at least 70 and the bike was running for a few minutes I am going to try it again once I fix the electrical issue and make sure the carb passages are clean...again...
     
  11. NikoRx

    NikoRx Member

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  12. SQLGuy

    SQLGuy Well-Known Member

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    (This was a reply to the question about what might cause starting problems after getting an ideal warm idle) Enrichment channels plugged. Mixture screws set too rich or too lean. Other mods (pods, exhaust, K&N air filter) without corresponding changes to pilot jet sizes. Valves out of spec. Float height.
     
  13. NikoRx

    NikoRx Member

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    valves were changed to be in spec, float height at ~2mm, I do have a K&N air filter that I put in a few years ago, the bike was able to run with that change. mixture screws set at 2.5 turns out. if the enrichment channels were plugged wouldn't the choke not work?
     
  14. NikoRx

    NikoRx Member

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    does the air filter type warrant a different pilot jet size?!
     
  15. SQLGuy

    SQLGuy Well-Known Member

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    Depends on how plugged. So, originally when you installed the K&N filter you didn't have a cold starting problem, but now you do? Those enrichment circuit galleries are pretty small - easy to clog, hard to clean.
     
  16. NikoRx

    NikoRx Member

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    The air filter was one of the first things I replaced years ago, I eventually took the bike to a mechanic who kinda fixed some of the problems, but he didn’t change the shaft seals so I had a vacuum leak. I took them apart and really cleaned them but perhaps they have had funk or something since I have been running fuel through them
     
  17. NikoRx

    NikoRx Member

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    Checked the starter motor and it works fine which means that it is in the wiring, right?
     
  18. NikoRx

    NikoRx Member

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    Hey guys, found this notch, is this going to be a problem?
     

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  19. NikoRx

    NikoRx Member

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    At my wits end, just took the carbs off and checked all the jets for clogs and they are all good, checked the other tiny wholes in the carb bowls and sent a wire down the shafts. Starter and solenoid both tested and worked and sprayed contact spray on all of the connections.
    Is this tube supposed to be plugged when I’m starting it? I felt like it should be since it isn’t hooked to the gas tank. I’m messing around with the idle but the bike is either all or nothing! Any ideas?!
     

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  20. NikoRx

    NikoRx Member

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    Today I plan on trying again to get the idle with the enricher off, I am going to try and turning out the air mixture screws a quarter turn to see how that effects it. I also am going to remember to use a fan this time, the engine started spitting out some oil. good learning moment!
     

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