TURBOCHARGED MAXIM 650 BUILD

oh there will be both.. Im very excited to hear it just idle with that exhaust....

Also, i tested the VNT with my air hose. With the vanes open and my air compressor nozzle blowing into the exhaust input side of the turbo, the turbine does not spin. Close the vanes (wastegate arm) and the turbine starts to spin.. all with a air hose at 60 psi pressure. Can't wait to see how it spools with 650cc's of hot air entering it.

 

Intercooler end tank update.....last nights work..

 

looking good so far ill have to post a vid of my 81 xj650 non turbo that i turbo charged and fuel injected took it to the track last year but now im redoing some things i didnt like last year are getting redone im using the same intercooler but i dont have a front fender so mine clears the forks. If you need any help just ask ive been down this road lol

 

What the eff is FrankensteinHappenin here.....

 

You have pretty much blocked off all the cooling airflow from the front of the engine, and replaced it with a big heat pump. I would be curious just how long it takes to cook the rings in cylinders 2 & 3.

The oil cooler is a good idea. Except that the feed, and return lines are routed along side the exhaust pipes. Overall effect. Hotter oil!

Get rid of all that excess heat to give it a chance.

Ghost

 

Hi MiGhost,

Regarding blocking off all the cooling airflow: Doesn't the stock bike have 4 large exhaust pipes sitting infront of the engine? While I agree there is slightly more area being taken up by the turbo, I dont see this as significantly impeding airflow to the point of overheating. Its not blocking the cooling fins, and there is quite a bit of air gap between the turbo and the block. I do however agree that the turbo will generate more heat than the stock exhaust pipes. Some things to mitagate this could be, a ceramic coated header and turbo exhaust section as well as a turbo heat shield blanket. Ive also seen other air cooled bikes with their turbos where mine is (some xj1100's) and they dont report any issues.

Regarding the oil cooler, dont the stock lines run parallel to the exhaust pipes? Therefore allowing more heat into them. In my setup, they only cross perpendicular to the #4 header. Which I suppose could be re-welded to give more clearance. If heat becomes an issue, the other thing that could be done is to add heat sheilding around the pipes where they are closer to the lines. I suppose if this fails then I could move the oil cooler out opposite the intercooler onto the other crash bar.

I appreciate the feedback.

 

update: tried to fire the bike to see if it would even pop. So i put some gas in the cylinders and tried cranking. Nothing. Tried this several times. Then did a compression check all were around 140, one was 70, but I am guessing that will come up once the engine has ran for the first time... It should have still popped or fired once but not even a bang.

The carbs didnt have any fuel in them, maybe that is why so I will try that this week sometime. However it should have fired. I checked that i had spark (well as good of spark as the stock coils allow).

 

How much gas did you put in the cyinders? I'd be worried about a bent rod in the 70psi cylinder :?

On the oil cooler, yes our oil pipes do run past the headers. Carl's theory was good but in practice we don't have a problem since the oil cooler disperses far more heat (through greater surface area) than the pipes could ever collect even if they ran against the headers.

Same with the engine cooling, once on the move air will be moving too fast & in too great a volume to affect the temperature of the air reaching the fins to a degree that'd cause problems.

I'd consider at least fitting dyna coils for a turbo build, the stock coils aren't the best as you know, and you want the most powerful spark you can get in a forced induction application (personally I'd have built a megajolt box to run (for example) a Ford EDIS-4 coil pack, those things are powerful enough to make leads explode!)

 

lets get it running first, then perhaps a jolt or two.

no, this isnt my first time gassing cylinders. I think its probably a stuck ring as the engine has been sitting for who knows how long. Just want to see if it can fire. Will try adding gas to carbs and cranking over.

 

well it ran.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MB9JWyH ... j6MyTHwOAA

now i need to finish up the charge piping, hook up the fuel pump relay, test the petcock on the 750 tank to ensure no leaks and it should be getting close to being able to go for a drive. Also the oil you see leaking is the oil return from the turbo not being hooked up. THe turbo 650 low oil level sensor is backwards to the 650 gauge light and will need to be swapped. THe light is on when the oil level is OK and goes out once it drops to the low level.

One problem I did run into is that i have zero vaccum at idle. I only get 15 inches when its coming down from being revved, at idle nothing....
What i did is tap into the nipples on each of the boots between the carb and engine. i connected a vacum line to the left 2 carbs t'd them with a brass T, then did the same to the other 2. I then took thoes 2 lines and T'd them once more and connected directly to the vaccum gauge. Not sure why there is no vaccum reading. Any ideas?

 

awesome!

and ps, your snowmobile water videos are sweet! iv always wanted to do that! how deep is that water?

 

deep enough to have the water over the hood when you sink...

And.. that there was a snowmobile pulling a waterskier at 60 mph.

 

Yea that was the first one I watched! Then I couldn't resist watching a couple other ones.

 

long awaited update. First test ride was performed last night.. Bike made 3 psi in 1st gear with the VNT/wastegate not connected.

Wierd thing is that when the VNT vanes were fully closed it seemed that the motor was so choked out on the exhaust side that it couldnt even rev up in neutral... I didnt think this would happen. Thankfully there is a adjustable rod to limit the vane closed position.. I am going to open this a bit and see if it eliminates the choking out. When the vanes are fully open, the motor revs quiet freely.. and the sound is much louder too. With the vanes closed you can barely hear the motor running (at idle).

A video should follow soon. I need to add a blow off valve to the charge pipe now that i know its capable of making boost, and fab up the wategate solinoid mount. Then we should be good to go!

 

Well adjusting the vane stop appeared to do the trick. Still a bit of a bog but at least it spools up now. And does it ever spool. This thing is already slipping the clutch at part throttle in third. I'm getting 15 psi easily at part throttle in 2nd and 3rd

Here's a little teaser video to show spool in first gear. Unfortunately I don't have the electronic stock tach. If anyone has just the face and guts for an electronic tach ill buy it off you..

Spool in 1st
http://youtu.be/l4qQ8hteNBw


Next up:

Get the waste gate actuator fabbed up, and probably a manual boost controller and better blow off valve. Enjoy the vid

 

Just some pictures of the build.

Soon soon a road video of boost through the gears.

if anyone also has an electronic tach face and guts to sell, that would help me out. This thing is spooling so quick. The VNT was a very good choice.

 

looks like the next mod is a new clutch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF1jDQ0gY5k

 

go with the Barnett Clutch kit ive got it in my bike and 4000+ miles on boost and no slip at all the hotter you get the clutch the most it sticks great clutch

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-XJ650-Ma ... 61&vxp=mtr

 

drat... already ordered the ebc hd springs and plates. guess well see.

anyone have a electronic maxim tachometer they want to get rid of? Id like to get some video showing spool at various rpm in each gear to compare. all i need is the face and guts.
Thanks

 

i have my whole cluster still i think but mine was driven off the cam with a cable

 

Next issues:

It looks like the turbo i chose is too efficient. It is a VNT off a Jetta TDI. At cruise i am making 2-3 psi I cant believe it, just maintaining speed.
surely this cant be too good for fuel consumption.
In first gear boost comes on at like 4-5000 rpm. This turbo is almost always in boost.! And it is a much bigger turbo than the stock seca one.
My other issue is that it appears the vanes will not open up far enough, causing me to need to install a external wastegate.
it wants to surpass 15 psi, but at this point above 15 i start getting spark blowout, or the bike sounds like it is misfiring. i havent cut down my plug electrodes, but i hear the fix is to install hotter coils.

anyways, just a small update.

 

Thats pretty neat man!

 

When I had the spark blow out problem, I closed the gap on the plugs and also tried cutting down the electrodes.....also installed dynatek 3 ohm coils and nothing seemed to work 100% of the time. I switched back to the OEM coils because the dynatek's were making the tach bounce around. I then stumbled upon the solution. I was poking around with the voltmeter, and found I was losing almost 2 volts by the time the voltage got to the coils....so 2 volts were being lost through the wiring harness, connectors, stop switch etc....so I wired a simple relay so the coils get voltage (full 12v) directly from the battery and BAM! it has not spit or sputtered since, full 18+ psi boost all the way to redline without a hiccup! I'm running the stock turbo modified with a larger impeller wheel, thanks to a talented machinist on the tmioa forums. This mod should probably work for you also.

By the way, very nice workmanship on your build! I Love it!

 

is the voltage constant to the coils on one wire? i assume one is a signal to tell them when to fire? can this be measured with the key on and the bike off?

thanks

 

Yes, you are correct. Both coils have a constant 12v with the key on and this can be measured. Each coil has it's own signal wire, nothing changes with those. I ran a 10 gauge wire from the relay and then split it into two 10 gauge wires to feed each coil. I used one of the factory 12v supply wires to run back to the relay to turn it on with the key.....the other factory 12v wire I taped off. If your running dynatek coils it doesn't matter which screw you use, since they don't have any polarity. Hope this helps your problem.

 

Farmer, did you get any dyno runs or run a quarter mile yet with your setup? Do you think you can run in the 10s with the turbo and a good clutch? I have a XJ900 engine and thinking of adding a turbo to it.

 

No. I know my clutch (ebc aftermaket discs and HD springs) is starting to slip at only 13psi.

Looks like I need to take a look at putting on the 6 spring maxim x clutch, and possible machine to accomodate another clutch friction disc or 2, similar to what XS650 owners have done.

 

Thanks for the insight! In your opinion, what percent gain hp did you get? Was it night and day over stock? Thanks

 

with this turbo that can actually spool up in 1st gear, and the fact it is also making 5psi just cruising at 100km/h...

Yes night and day. Getting close to 100% more power im sure.

 

Wow! 5psi at cruise sounds high? Don't you want boost on acceleration and no boost at cruise? I'm new to turbos, so I don't know? When the clutch problem is solved, will the U-joint hold out? It seemed like a weak point to me? Could have a drive shaft issue maybe too? I guess we'll have to test it to find out? Is the xj700 a direct swap or is there some modifying to make it fit? I'm learning a lot on here. Do you have a link by chance on that added friction plate mod? Thanks Farmer!

 

yes, ideally you want 0 boost at cruise but this VNT turbo is so efficient...

friction plate mod:
http://hughshandbuilt.blogspot.ca/2011/ ... -more.html

apparently you can also add a banshee lockup clutch to it after converting to the 6 spring clutch:

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27410

I plan to do this.

 

That would be a really awesome clutch! With the modification to clutch having the banshee lockup, what happens to the placement of the push lever axle? I'm sure that the clutch cover would not fit and would have to be modified? Would this heavy of a clutch need to be converted to a hydraulic or can you still use the cable?

On the boost, can you use a boost controller to reduce the unwanted boost @cruise? I have a microsquirt that has a boost controller program built-in. I'm still learning about how it works, but I won't need an external one for mine. I'll just need a solenoid in between the microsquirt & turbo.

I understand that the turbo's oil return is by gravity. It must be returning to the oil pan turbo mount, but where did you tap from for the oil input to the turbo?

 

the clutch cover would need to be modded with a spacer plate, and the pushrod lengthened.
not sure about extra effort, but im sure a hydraulic conversion could also be done.
the boost controller can only raise boost, not lower it. if you had an electronic servo opening up the vnt wastegate at cruise then you could get rid of the boost during cruise.
you wont have this problem with a regular turbo.

the turbo seca motor has an additional oil scavenge pump as the stock turbo was lower than the oil supply. Mine is front mounted and higher, but i still use this pump/return.

I used the factory feed line to the turbo, just made some stainless lines for it.

 

Well, 6 spring clutch from a maxim x ordered off ebay. lets see if one extra spring will hold 11 psi without giving out.

 

This very cool! I'm very interested to see how this works out. Are you going to do the extra disc mod? Is this a direct swap or is there some fabrication involved?

 

i shall know more once the clutch arrives. thinking i just run it with heavy springs and see what happens. If the clutch pull is too crazy, or it still cant hold it then see if an extra disc can be added. Finally, once it slips that on goes the lockup I would like to get it running 20psi if the compressor is big enough for it..

 

Man bro, That's a lot of boost! Are you going to run race fuel to prevent pre-detention? I heard after 15 psi it gets scary on pump gas. You have balls doing that on a carb setup! Would you say these engines are on the same par as the oil-cooled GSXR engines of the 80's as far as durability and strength goes? A lot of guys turbo those bikes because they are bullet-proof. I'm debating whether to use a gt1548, gt2052 w/ 48 trim, or a Borgwarner K03-2072, K03-2075? What are the specs on your turbo? I'm shooting for 150 hp right now and that puts me around 11 psi roughly.

 

hello guys some of you know of my turbo/fuelinjected build on here just want to put some input in here. On my setup i have fuel and timing control to make these engines last and to make the most power you need timing control i run 9psi on my bike with a 13g turbo and its great planning on hitting the dyno this year to see what it puts out right now it will beat a gsxr 600 light to light i say light to light because these bikes dont go fast lol mine revs to 10k and tops out at 127mph.

the reason the clutch is slipping is because the turbo is spooled up way to fast either open the vanes on the turbo or change it out for a bigger one being spooled up that soon puts more stress on everything you want the turbo in the powerband on the n/a engine. mine has full boost by 6k or so witch really helps traction and it pulls all the way to redline.

I am willing to help anyone with there projects if you need or have a question then pm me.

 

The turbo is the gt1749v, looks to be a 49mm compressor wheel and 44mm exhaust wheel. Boost by 5 grand in 1st gear.

I dont think the clutch is slipping due to spooling too soon, if i gradually ease into it it will still slip once i hammer it.

regarding the timing and fuel control, yes i agree with you, right now i get a bog and afr goes to 10.0 which is really rich when I hammer it from down low. I plan to convert to microsquirt this winter, care to share your spark and fueling maps?
Also, what did you do about a detonation sensor?

 

hell ya man ill help both of you guys with your microsquirt i hated setting mine up do to the support forums sucked when you guys are ready i could give you my phone number and you guys can just call if you have questions but please when you go to do it please try and use the same parts i have to make tuning easier for me and you. i can get yours very close just over the web.

FYI A little background on myself ive been tuning efi turbo and n/a for 6-7years in cars also own and operate a fabrication business here in iowa on the side and work full time at the biggest hot rod shop in iowa as a fabricator and on Saturdays i dyno tune at a friends import shop.

 

Hey Farmer, any luck with your clutch conversion? Did it hold up?

 

its in the mail. should have a result next week. I assume it should hold about 15psi.
how about you, get a turbo yet? Take a look at the gt2052v

 

I talked to the guys at Mr.Turbo. They recommended the gt2056 turbo. My goal is 150 horsepower and building from there. The smaller turbos seemed a little restrictive and the gt2056 spools around 5500 and hits full boost at 6500-6800 rpm. I wanted the 2259, but I think it might lag too much? I like the external wastegate option on 2259. I'll have to fabricate the 2056 to use an external.

 

it looks like there are several variations of the gt20 series with VNT, even gt22's...

i don't see why you wouldnt want to go with a VNT turbo of the same size. spool will be that much sooner, and the smile on your face that much bigger.
Ive also modified the vnt actuator to work properly with a vaccum line, essentially reverse on its mount so that the vanes are normally closed, then run vaccum to the top port to open the vanes in vaccum, and tap the bottom for boost pressure to open them during boost. base boost i am seeing 9 psi right now.

thread on turbos:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.ph ... 093&page=2

 

good listing of vnt turbos:

http://www.dieselevante.it/turbocharger ... 79&idcat=2