Water in Engine

Ok so I have been doing a ton of reading and I don't think I should have any problems with a non-Cali engine. I have identified the extra port on carb #2, and even found my old pictures of the carb rack before I disassembled them (everyone is taking lots of pictures of their carbs as step 1, right?) so this is kind of an interesting tangent to this project.

California emissions port, carbs are upside down (duh)


Filthy, and so many hoses


One more, right side up, showing the emissions port on carb #2

 

No you won't have any trouble.... Just put a tight cap on the carb nipple--
Or, hook up the canister and leave the return vent tube open under the tank --
Or, if you still have the calif tank, hook everything up.

It's an emissions thing, not an engine thing---

Dave fox

 

Those look like my '85 carbs with vent hoses everywhere!

 

I tube is gas line ( normal ), three tubes are overflow ( normal ), one tube is the emissions tube (CA-only..... The only thing different from the other 700's)

Dave

 

Without looking at it, I have to assume that I have the OEM tank. I would like to eliminate the canister but without a way to vent the tank (since I don't have a vented cap) it looks like I will have to leave it in service. I just like to reduce weight on my bikes, it's why I like small displacement machines.

 

The California emissions tube is not in that picture, overall I have six lines;
One gas line with filter - check
Two overflows just above the fuel rail
Three from the vent (I assume) nipples on the front of the carbs.

 

Actually, why couldn't a person remove the canister and route the Evap hose from the tank directly to the extra carb nipple? Or does it have to have the atmospheric hose?

 

the canister has the charcoal in it.

You could put regular carbs on, or cap the carb vent nipples

The tank will be vented if there is nothing on the tank's nipple (unless there is a a one-way valve inside and I don't recall there being one.

Otherwise, cap the tanks port, and then put a regular filler on.

Len is pretty knowledgeable on the calif model stuff, too. I learned about them from him......you could ask him directly.

dave

 

Lest anyone think this project is languishing in Neverland, I have been busy masking non-painted parts and scrubbing, de-rusting and scuffing the paint on the frame and reshooting a coat of gloss black. Frame looks new, and cost next to nothing. As I have a few vacations planned for the next three months, as well as the holidays most of my dosh is accounted for. Once the new paint on the frame has dried up enough, it is time for the engine to return to its place at the table. After that, lets see;
New battery
Exhaust gaskets
Polish & install exhaust
Pull swingarm, service and paint
Wheel bearings
Clean & refill forks
Rebuild master cylinder & calipers
Replace brake lines & fill/bleed
Tires are last so I am not tempted to go riding before the above list is complete.
Once it is rideable, there are little dress-up projects here and there to attend to, replace the rusted hardware on the instrument panels, polish out the corrosion on the rear fender rails, things like that, simple one day kind of deals that won't take the bike off the road.
Later I can paint the bodywork. One thing the PO did right on this bike was he had the saddle recovered a couple years ago, and it still looks new. I have never in all my years bought a bike more than 10 years old that didn't have a split or tear in the saddle, so this is a nice change for me.

 

Been fiddling with a few things and working on some other projects, but this has not gone by the wayside. In fact, while I have been at work today (Saturday, gotta love it) I built a rack for wet-setting the carbs. The fuel tank was a leftover from an old go-kart project that I have kept on the shelf for no good reason up until now. I have the original intake boots from the scrap engine that I will bolt to the lower crosspiece, and viola! As I work in construction, all this material is lying around at my work, so other than a little bit of effort to cut to size and assemble this was all free.

 

It is cool. And quick too. Basically it's like using a miniature and WELL controlled carbon arc torch. Thousands of tiny electrical discharges actually vaporise the steel for a split second, then the detritus gets flushed away, leaving an empty space where your broken stud use to be.

 

So I finally finished the last step on my carbs - wet setting the floats. I have to say, I can totally see the value in this process now. When reassembling the carbs, I set all four floats based on a measurement of the float from the rim of the bowl surface. 18mm if I recall correctly. Well, upon wet setting them, only #2 was correct, #1 was too low and #'s 3&4 were both overflowing. Now all four are set the same, my hands and workbench smell like gas, but with just a little more frame touch-up to do I shoud be able to get the engine and carbs back into the chassis by the end of the month.
Fwiw, I added some Stabil into the gas while I was wet setting them, so hopefully this will minimize the residue left in the passages until I get everything in position to start it up.

 

And so the frame painting is complete. Next up is the reinstall the bits I removed from the chassis (foot pegs, switches and electrical) and put the air box and canister back in, then put in the engine.

 

Frame is touched up, and the engine went back in today. It's starting to look like a motorcycle again.

 

Looking good!

 

The light, it burns us!

 

I cheated with the lights, btw. The old battery was dead, 24hrs on a 1a charger netted just 4.6v across the terminals. So I hooked up my 8a car battery charger to the pos/neg cables on the bike and turned the key.
I bought a new battery this morning. On to the charger it goes tonight, maybe tomorrow night I can hit the starter!

 

Nice!

Gary H.

 

Spent the better part of yesterday wrenching on this machine. Cut some new intake boot gaskets, torqued a few things down, spent a little time infuriating myself changing the spark plugs in my daughters old Mercedes, installed the new fully charged battery, played around making the turn signals go click-click, reinstalled a few hard parts on the chassis, along with reattaching the carbs and lubing the throttle and clutch cables. I also filled the case with new Rotella and spun the starter a few times just to hear it spin.
About midway through the day I hit a little sidebar when my son, who had come home in the middle of the night and proceeded to vomit all over the half bath, came downstairs to admit that he had wrapped his car around a tree. Had to swing over to the impound lot and sure as shooting that car is a goner. Never a dull moment with children, no matter how old they get. Well it looks like he is spending the money he had been saving for a new computer to buy his sisters old Mercedes (referenced above), and picking up his own insurance from this point. No injuries, no other vehicles involved.
So lastly I sorted through the crate of parts I have accumulated and found a couple baggies full of nuts and bolts the PO had removed when last he had attempted to work on it, including the exhaust hanger bolts and the fasteners for some cosmetic parts. So now I have everything I need to put this back together, complete.
Next up, pull the rear wheel and swing arm, service the drum brake and final drive, touch up the paint, repack the bearings and shod a new tire and reassemble. After that, the exhaust goes back on and I see if this thing will run. Then service the front end and if budget allows, paint the tank and fenders. If not, f*** it I'll ride it ugly. I am shooting for Xmas.

 

And this, my friends, is a great example of how we save these old bikes from the grave yard. I'd buy it. Good job Shank.

Gary H.

P.S.- Glad to hear your son is ok.

 

He deserved a lot worse than the hangover he ended up with, so I am thankful that I get to be the one to punish him and not a court of law.

 

Exactly.

Gary H.

 

how's the tree ?

 

Been perusing some of these engine tear down threads and can't seem to find if it's necessary to fully remove the clutch, stator and drive assembly to split the cases. My hy-vo chain guide is no more and needs to be replaced while I've got the engine out of the bike. Yamaha nor Haynes manuals are clear on whether it's actually necessary.

 

IIRC the clutch basket needs to come out, but the stator can stay.

 

Well I have a few missing part despite my earlier post. The exhaust hanger bolts are missing the backing nuts, which I had hoped would have been welded to the backside of the mounts. Que sera, I gotta dig back in and find those nuts. I also have to find the one missing plug cap, although by swapping them around I did confirm I have spark on all four plugs. I went ahead and finished hooking up the carbs, throttle, enricher and clutch cables, ran the transmission through all its gears, and checked all the fuses. Its so nice to have an easy to get to, well organized fuse box. The engine makes a nice thunka-thunka-thunka sound when I hit the starter, so I am super close to hearing this bike run.

 

lookin good!

CN

 

Got the exhaust back on, and even found the fourth spark plug cap, I was so excited to give the engine a spin and maybe even squeeze some fuel into the carbs and see if I could get it to fire.
Nothing.
Starter was spinning yesterday. Now, just the solenoid clicks, lights dim. Starter does not spin.
Looks like a starter rebuild is in my future.

 

Well from time to time she cranks, so I hooked up an auxiliary fuel tank and hit the starter. It spins and spins, and from time to time it sputters like it is trying to firm but it never gets going on its own. I checked the spark in a darker room and the spark looks a lot more purple than blue, so next up is to check the coils. Oh Lordy this could get pricey quick.

 

Figured out the problem with the aux fuel tank was not feeding gas to the carbs because there was no vacuum drawing it in. Came home early this afternoon and primed it with some starter fluid and sure enough it fire up and ran. Idles a bit rough but for the time being, I am satisfied for the time being and can focus my energy on some other maintenance points.

 

Well at least you got that squared away. Bikes lookin good. I like those gauges.

 

Work continues, decided to pull the tank back off and get its accoutrements sorted out.




All this came out of the petcock upon disassembly...

 

No wonder it wouldn't start; the plugs didn't have anything to ignite.

Gary H.

 

What does the inside of the tank look like?

 

Not sure, but there's stuff moving around in there...

 

1. Do you have the vacuum line hooked up to the petcock? Have you verified the tube is not clogged or cracked?

2. my sister totaled a car back when we were in College.... Bounced off of an oak tree and flipped the car. That was in the 80's. I drove past that tree a few weeks ago---- still growing strong, but still has a big bare ( no bark ) spot on it. I bet she still looks at it every time she drives by it too-

Dave f

 

Did not have the vacuum line hooked to the petcock, as I was using an auxiliary tank to test-run the bike this wouldn't have been an issue. Knowing there is some loose debris inside the tank, I didn't want to pour fuel in it only to have it contaminate my inline filter and of course, I would just have to drain it back out again to clean it.
Correct me if i am wrong, but for the fuel level sensor, the copper wire needs to be soldered to the terminal at the base, yes?
On the petcock, should there be a tower filter which stabs into the tank? If not, then there is no filter on this and that is not what I am used to seeing on bikes.

 

Yes to the wire. Also, yes to the tower filter which I think also has something to do with the reserve fuel level. Most of us add a small inline filter between the petcock and the carbs for better filtration. $4 or $5 well spent.

 

My bad Shank. Should have read back through the post about aux tank. Didn't sound right when i posted. You're too "therow" to not have gone over the tank prior to the start up with it. Sorry.

Gary H.

 

Hakuna Matata man, I gotta make some blank-off plates for the petcock and fuel level sensor openings then let a gallon of Evap-o-Rust sit in the tank for a day or two before I decide on putting a liner in it. I don't like tank liners unless it is really in bad shape.

 

Cool thanks,thats what I figured.
I am firm believer in inline filters, as many old bikes as I have owned they are just an automatic addition in my mind.

 

I learned about Evaporust here. Good stuff.

Gary H.

 

Get the tank really clean with evapo-rust, or with electrolysis, and when it's clean, swish the inside good with Phosphoric Acid. It will put a phosphate coating on the metal. Flush and dry. Then, fill with fuel. Or, coat with oil, and then fill. As long as there is no water in the tank, the metal won't rust, and you don't need to coat it. (unless it's rusted through..........)

dave

 

Thats what I normally do. I have done liners in the past with pinholed tanks, but if the metal is solid I don't like to take my chances with a potentially sloppy liner installation (and that's doing it myself!).

 

Nice that it fires up!!

 

Ordered my petcock rebuild kit, along with a new air and oil filter. While I am waiting for that to arrive, I cleaned up and polished all of the hard parts al'a the FAQ guide. Seat and mating surfaces are nice and shiney now.

 

Well I rebuilt the petcock, so that is behind me, and I went ahead and installed a new OEM air filter.
What is frustrating me is the engine still will not fire up and idle. I can "force" it to run with a spritz of ether, and even just on gas it will sputter, but nothing will allow it to just f***ing run. I pulled the lid off of one carb and the slide resisted me when I tried to remove it. Back when i rebuilt the carbs I polished the slides and their bores on all four of them and ensured they "clunked" when dropped into place, although this afternoon there is a little mung on the one I pulled, residual I suppose from wet setting the floats several weeks ago. I suppose if the slides are stuck, then the engine-created vacuum is not pulling them up and siphoning gas through the main jet/emulsion tube, thus no workee except an occasional sputter when enough vapor seeps through to hit a spark plug. Hopefully it is a simple matter of popping the caps off and giving each of the slides a final touch up with some 2000 grit to smooth them out again.

 

Maybe just a shot of kroil to get them away from a "dry-stick", then you wouldn't have to open them up again......spray a shot in and work each slide by hand/finger for a bit til smooth again

 

i'am not sure the slides should move at idle but at any rate they shouldn't stick.
use prime and see if gas is flowing from the valve. open the bowl drains to check for gas. 2 and 3/4 out on the pilot screws and the caps are on the vacuum ports

 

Well Polock that presents an interesting alternate possibility. Since I am still working on the tank, I have an alternate fuel source feeding to the carbs (two inline filters, just in case). However the vacuum line on the manifold on #2 is open to the elements, all the others are capped per OEM. I wonder could there be such a loss of vacuum from the one port being open that it is preventing a smooth start? Easy to check, I'll just pinch the open hose and see if it helps.