Why You NEED TO REPLACE Original brake lines w/pics

I'm not arguing, I'm just asking questions. Thank you for frankly answering about the hoses you used for your test.

This said, I do think that your test is valid and your point of view is right.

I also tend to think that some of these old brake lines are still good, because all these bikes haven't been ridden and/or serviced and/or stored all the same way.

The problem is that nobody can't tell just by looking at them. Better change them, for sure.

 

Wait... I cant just rinse these out with some water and throw em back on???



kidding - but for real, a friend of mine has a suuuuuuuuper nice camera, i'll cut mine open and see what kinda pictures i can snag with her macro lens

 

Please do! I really want to see how bad are yours. Actually, everyone who will replace his old lines in the following weeks should cut them, picture them and post them here.

Please do it, whatever their actual condition.

 

but you can reuse those copper washers.work hardening is what happened to them the first time they were used, makes them too hard to flatten out and seal right again.
heat them red hot 2 or 3 times, let them cool slowly and sand flat with fine wet/dry paper and they'll be good to go.
not saying you shouldn't buy new ones but if you forgot or something, don't let it stop progress

 

So here is round two of looking down the rabbit hole. These lines literally JUST came off the bike. Just mounted the SS lines and walked inside to tear into these babies. One was DOT 10/80 and the other DOT 9/80.

The inner liner on these unlike the ones that we saw from fitz are not too bad. Actually in surprisingly good shape.



So I decided to start cutting them lengthwise. This one you can see a little bit of cracking in the very center of the cut area. Again not bad.



Now here is the real shocker to me. I looked down the outsides for signs of area's where there may be problems and found some cracking in the outer layer around the area where the line is held to the fender. I cut that area open and found this.



That is a straight line cut. I double checked. The middle layer has swollen there and is creating a choke point. I'm assuming that under pressure this could be dealt with, but it looks like the beginnings of a heart attack if you ask me. Or a ticking time bomb, not sure which.

Anyway, I have some pretty SS lines to go bleed life into.

 

Very interesting! It seems like the hose has worn a lot more at the stress of (friction) point. Is the inner line just swollen or also cracked at that point? I can't see very clearly even if your pictures are quite good.

 

There is some minor cracking along the whole area that I cut open in that picture. Nothing deep though. Just the surface is cracking, probably from the swelling pushing the liner the opposite direction to which it was designed.

 

Is there any crack that seems like it could go all the way through the inner layer soon?

 

I just spread it as wide as I could and at the top where you see the beveled cut one of the cracks goes all the way through to the mesh middle layer.

 

Do you feel it could have been possible for you, under close inspection, to notice these damages to the outer layer (cracked, swollen area) before you started pulling it off of the bike? Or was that section covered with a rubber protective sheet like the ones we can see mntbikecrazy55 brake hoses picture?

 

Those protective spots on the 650 maxim are on the master cylinder to joint line where it contacts a positioning ring behind the headlight bucket. Where this piece was located was behind the rubber boot that contacts the hook on the fender that guides the line. See Fitz's picture of his SS lines and you will see the rubber boot I am speaking of.

 

That's OK now, I know what you mean. It also answers my question: basically, it was impossible to notice these damages before pulling the hose off of the bike.

 

The problem is that you don't necessarily see things that are wrong. That's why engineers do non-destructive testing. You can't rely on your bare naked eyes.
The rubber in brake lines simply breaks down. It oxidizes, corrodes in a process similar to rusting, except you can't see it.
Sure, you can take your brake lines off after 30 years and maybe they look like crap. But if you take them off a year or two after their expiration date, then they will most likely LOOK fine. They are not fine. Their properties are out of spec, but you don't have a way to measure them.

Honestly, you're better off saving money by sending your engine oil to the lab instead of replacing it every 2500 miles. It's probably fine anyway (oil has come a long way in 30 years), but it's testable, so you'll know if it isn't. You can't test the brake line, you just have to replace it.

There's no point in showing pics, or even looking at them. Look at the date, that's IT!

 

Another valuable PSA from BigFitz. Of all the things I have done to my Seca the SS lines were absolutely the most amazing. I just picked up an 04 Concours and I have to say that my the front brakes on my Seca are every bit as good if not better. The Kaw will get SS lines eventually

 

this is just another reason I am super glad I found this forum! thanks to fitz for this thread and many others. I just checked my new to me 83 maxim. the date on the lines appears to be 1983! yes, possibly original equipment! does anyone have a good suggestion for what ss brake lines are the best bang for the buck?

CN

 

I'm pleased my pup chewed my original lines, just gotta do the anti dive and rear lines now. Was really P'd off at first cause they looked fine on the outside. $75.00 NZ per side custom made so probably another $150.00 will sort the anti dive and the rear. peace of mind for very little.

 

Finally took the old lines off last night as I went to test-fit some new SS lines from Chacal. I'll cut them up tonight and get the pictures on here soon.

You know when you go to change a lightbulb on a ceiling light, and there's a bunch of old dead bugs collected in cover? I can definitely report so far that the MC reservoir looked like someone had emptied said bugs into it. I'm guessing that's bits of deteriorated rubber from the inside of the tubes.

 

That's exactly what it is.

 

Ok, so here's the results.

First, let me say that I understand now why not too many of you have cut them open for pictures. That was really difficult! I had my hands covered in brake fluid and I was handling razor blades and pulling hard on the lines and doing my best to keep a straight line without snapping a blade or losing a finger (or an eye!).

Second, big disclaimer: Fitz, don't get me wrong - I'm glad I'm getting new lines. I don't think anyone should have rubber hoses this old. Everyone go get new lines regardless of the material.

Now that the disclaimer is out of the way, I'm honestly a little disappointed. My lines look fine on the inside. I was hoping to see ruptures all over the place, but they look smooth. Maybe in one or two spots there's a little brown buildup, but not bad for 33 years old. The few times that it looks like there may be swelling, there's not. That's just where my utility knife went astray.







And just to show you, that looks like "DOT Somethingsomething 11/81" to me. As in November of 1981. I was 7 months old when that thing was last inspected.


Now, here's where it truly gets scary. I opened up the master cylinder, and this is what I found. Looks like bug mash, doesn't it?


And this is the brown sludge that came out of the MC when I squeezed the brake lever.


So there you go.

Now what I wonder is whats going on in the brake caliper. Is that were the bug mash came from, cause I'm having a hard time believing that's years of built up rubber liner residue. Fitz, I'm looking to you.

 

YUCK.

The "bug mash" is dried brake fluid and bits of the various seals as well as remnants of the insides of the hoses. Primarily just dried-up brake fluid.

In the third pic down, I see what appears to be a lengthwise split in the inner line a few CM long. The date (11/81) is when the hose was made, not just inspected.

The apparent rust is a concern; there are very few ferrous parts in the system. Be sure you completely disassemble the M/C and carefully inspect the bore when you rebuild it.

I wonder what the caliper looks like?