YICS

here ya go Wiz link

 

Thanks Polock, it just goes to show that there is nothing new in Heaven or earth.
BTW. I notice that R.Co. didn't get involved this time around.
Have a nice day, folks.

 

Rickcomatic is to busy out riding on his perfectly tuned XJ (which he tuned using the YICS tool) to come in here and make arguments he and many others have already made.

I plan on making and using a YICS tool to tune my carbs. I've been riding for a while and my bike feels pretty well tuned. I would be ecstatic if I could really feel an improvement after tuning my carbs properly.

 

So these same "Yamaha mechanics" that people advise other owners to NOT take their bikes to for service, and who admit that they "never use the YICS tools" (i.e. never follows factory procedures) are now the fonts of wisdom and the Holy Grail, standard-bearers of AND THE BASIS OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE ARE GOING TO SITE, GIVE, AND URGE ONTO OWNERS WHO ARE JUST GETTING STARTED IN THIS WHOLE CARB "CLEANING", TUNING, REBUILDING ETC. PROCESS?

You know, Wiz, after some thought, I'll give to you that you ARE right.....I do have an agenda. Not the one that you imply----that I'm just a huckster trying to foist useless parts onto people needlessly.....but more along the following lines:

Except for instances where the factory or aftermarket manuals are clearly incorrect...the mis-labeled air jets in the Haynes manual, for instance......I always recommend to people TO FOLLOW THE FACTORY RECOMMENDATIONS AS CLOSE TO THE LETTER AS POSSIBLE.

Why?

Because few, if any, people EVER "get it wrong" by following such procedures. Sure, in certain cases, there maybe "tricks of the trade" or shortcuts that might save a truly experienced, mechanically-savvy person such as yourself and a few others on this website some steps, time, money. But the vast majority of people who are in the first steps of learning how to work on these rather complicated, sensitive fuel systems, I feel that the exact WRONG way to go about teaching them is to say "oh, just ignore that step and kinda skip over that step and you don't really need to pay any attention to that, etc."

That just muddles up people's understanding of things, especially someone who is trying to get their feet wet on these issues.

You portray yourself as an expert---which I have no doubt that you ARE----but what's your goal here? To pound your chest and proclaim your expertise to everyone else? Is that how you truly "help others"? Especially the vast number of inexperienced, beginners that are members or visitors here?

My goal is to provide people with the correct parts and as much correct knowledge----foolproof, bulletproof, do-it-this-way and you can be certain that you won't get it wrong-----as possible. That's how you assist people that aren't technical, 20-years experienced mechanics to get things right the first time around. The 20-year experienced people:

A) don't really need your advice, and....

B) are set enough in their own ways that for the most part, they aren't going to use your advice, anyway.


I'm still waiting for an explanation of what the word "synchronization" means, as it applies to engines, and why having a big old honking vacuum leak within your YICS passage makes no difference to that synch procedure.

Because as soon as you state that a big vacuum leak does make a difference, then I'll ask you again why the Yamaha engineers made up all this stuff about using a vacuum block-off tool in the first place.

And if you say that it makes no difference as to whether there is a vacuum leak between cylinders when doing a synch, then why bother doing a synch, at all?

 

synchronization, i look at it as adjusting the idle speed of each cylinder, correct? it opens and closes the butterfly, changing idle speed, thats all it can do
vacuum leak, there is no vacuum leak, if the vacuum cap is taken off a intake manifold it will draw atmosphere, follow me here, if a tiny carb was placed on the vacuum port, would it still be a vacuum leak, no, now it's just one cylinder with a big carb and a tiny carb
once it's past a fuel metering device (carb) it's just another source, not a leak
i think anyone who is still reading this thread owes it to himself and the forum to try it both ways and form a opinion, ya can't go wrong following the book and ya can't hurt any thing not using the tool
now go get hot

 

You totally misunderstand my motives, Len, in my first post I just ran an idea up the flagpole to see if anyone would salute.
If you read any replies I make to other posts, you will see I only try to help & explain things in simple terms.
I think you doth complain too much.

 

Plenty of others around here that 'complain too much'.
Myself included

Len very well could be the most helpful guy on this board.

My thoughts on the YICS tool... well, like Polock said, I have yet to try it either way. But my guess is that it is necessary to get the sync 'in the ballpark' and that if it was just a BIT off, you could do it without it.

Then again, think of it this way... everyones talking about it being a vac leak. But, if they were isolated as if they were their own 4 engines... and they ran great that way, the YICS passage could only help remove any discrepancies (not sure if that's the word I wanted)

Meaning, if they all run perfect seperate from each other, once the vac is allowed to be shared again - if all 4 cylinders are drawing the same 'vac'... then all the YICS port can do is help balance those minor imperfections, when the motor has a SLIGHT bit more pull on one cylinder, it is equally spread out.

The motor goes through many load changes, and like Len said there are so many things, valve faces, RPM, cylinder cleanliness, compression, etc... that can alter that 'suck'. In that case, once all cylinders run PERFECT, BY THEM SELVES... once the YICS port is released, it can only help suppress those minor differences.

That's my $0.01 cent. Because nobody here probably expects two cents from me!

 

Wizard, if I mis-understood your motives, then I stand corrected. The earlier comment regarding "It is impossible to argue a contrary point of veiw with someone who has an inherent, vested interest" raised a few eyebrows though. Might have been just a turn of phrase that I mis-interpreted.

 

Polock raised a valid point, and dpawl just expanded on it: The YICS system isn't so much a "leak" as it is a giant "damper." Instead of tiny carbs attached to the vacuum ports, we have three other full-sized carbs attached; but the system is still "closed" unless there's an actual leak.

Seems like all the more reason to use the block-off tool; it eliminates the "damping" effect and lets you get an accurate reading on the cylinder in question.

 

Bingo, Fitzy,
And y'all aren't taking into account the full spectrum of the rpm range of operation, either.
The forces at work in the YICS passages at low rpm can be vastly different than at cruising or redline rpms.
Just like RF systems changing response at different frequencies, the resonances and pressures within the YICS can be drastically different at high rpm and thus effect engine performance in ways you'll never predict with a liquid synchronization gauge at idle or slightly above.
The interactions get VERY complicated and require finite element analysis to fully understand.

here's what i propose:
1. Acquire access to a dyno capable of measuring to tenths or hundredths of hp and torque
2. Plan to do all testing in the same day.
3. Run a baseline on a candidate YICS-equipped bike (Assumed to be in a good, solid state of tune, else the carb synch).
4. close the butterflies completely, then open them back up, but each of them slightly different, visually inspected.
5. Synch them WITHOUT the YICS block off tool.
6. Put her on the dyno and record the graph from idle to redline
7. Reset the butterflies askew
8. Synch WITH YICS tool.
9. Re-run curve on dyno.
10. Compare results.

Until then, i'm going to "err" on the side of believing the Yamaha engineers did some of the analysis of the YICS port effects at all rpm and studied wave propagation, cancellation and amplification as well as standing waves and pressure mapping.
Till then, i'll use the tool.

Disclaimer: I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but i AM an engineer in real life.
8)

Christopher.

 

he said what I said, just better. haha

 

Hammerheadx / dpawl31, you must be assuming that the YICS ports are pristine, clean, which in most cases ain't the case, most are blocked or semi blocked & all 4 cylinders clogged to different degrees, factor that into your dyno readings.

 

Well how do you get those ports clean then? If Cleanliness is Next to XJ Godliness then Cleaning that port sounds like a great step for us XJers

 

You have to get a long kabab skewer with a right angle bend on the end, then indulge in some amature gynecology.

 

Seriously?

 

YEP

 

I'll go out and give it a try right now! Thanks wiz. Always tryin to get his beaut to run better

 

Or you could purchase the pre-made tools from me that allow you to accomplish such tasks easily............

 

oh len, there you go again, trying to sell us unsuspecting XJers useful tools needed to complete the job correctly. HAHA.

 

Threaded rod, very skinny threaded rod that will fit in the holes works great too.

And you can also soak a clean rag in carb cleaner and drag it through a few times, then let it sit in there for a bit.

Wiz - the dyno readings, the syncing, etc... all under the assumption you are running with a clean bike... including the passage...

Who uses a YICS tool without cleaning the passage anyway O_O
Anything that touches my bike, anywhere - whereever it touches, that gets cleaned before use.

Always clean the hole before you use your tool. O_O