Carb cleaning adventure/questions thread!

I did not.... which one is the throttle shaft? Sorry man, i'm still learning. I'm assuming that's the thick shaft beneath the enrichment circuit shaft? How do I remove the c clips without damaging them?

Are those seals replaceable without breaking apart the rack?

 

kleraudio....you can get to only 2 of them......1 each on the outside of carbs #1 & #4 only.....you must break the rack to replace all throttle shaft seals...there are a total of 8.....2 per carb.........

If you break the rack....you might as well replace the fuel rail o-rings as well.....there are 6 of them......3 tubes with 2 o-rings each.....

The throttle shaft is the shaft with the sync screws on it......you have to break the rack to separate the carbs........

Here is a tutorial on replacing the throttle shaft seals & fuel o-rings....

http://www.xj4ever.com/hitachi%20thrott ... 0seals.pdf

Dont get discouraged by all of this.....it can be overwhelming at first but stick with it.....you will rewarded in the long run........we are here to help......I have had my XJ750J Maxim for 30 years......they are a great bike.....I am currently resurrrecting & restoring it back to health...

 

Jeez that looks like a nightmare. breaking the rack will have to wait till I actually have a workspace. My friends garage is no longer accessible (his g/f is back, she makes the rules, lol, poor guy)

 

well, he needs a new girlfriend.......a garage is a man cave for working on bikes....

Breaking the rack is going the 1 extra yard.......after doing the Whole Nine Yards by Rick Massey......most owners do not go this extra yard......

but doing a complete teardown and replacing throttle shaft seals & fuel O-rings is nothing short of doing it right......

You can put it off for now......but if the bike does not vac-sync it could be a number of things......leaky throttle shafts letting air in.....

My suggestion to you is not break the rack for now.....you have your hands full as it is.....

 

when u move the throttle , u see the butterflies rotate, the shaft their on is the throttle shaft. on the outside of #1 and #4 carb you can see the end of the shaft, it has a c-clip on it. There should be a place on the clip to put a small screwdriver, right next to the shaft. put your screwdriver in there and twist it the clip will come off (catch it or it will go into orbit).
Now under the washer is your seal. is it dry and hard, bad. is it melted and gooey, bad. those are the only 2 you can see without breaking the rack, you have to use those to judge the condition of the rest of them.

 

(catch it or it will go into orbit).

Now that is funny....got a good laugh out of that one....we all have been there one time or another......

Beaver Falls.....I am originally from York, Pa.....go Nittany Lions....

 

Polock, you never cease to make me laugh!

thanks guys, I'll check those out monday after work. Rack is at my desk at work right now.

 

Breaking the rack to do Shaft Seals and Fuel Gallery O-rings is something you should should do at the end of ...

November! Not, ...

July.

Unless those Parts DESPERATELY need replacement ...
(Keyword: Desperately)

Fuh-gedd-eh-bow-dit!

a) Don't make a Good situation ... Bad.
b) Don't make a Bad situation ... Worse!

 

Kleraudio,

Some of my best riding has been in Colorado.....bought my bike new in Grand Junction in '82.....rode all around western Colorado.......San Juans mtn range ( Million Dollar Highway ) was my favorite ride....from Montrose to Durango....prettiest part of the state....IMHO

 

Yea man, that's awesome! I can't wait to get in the hills. MSF class is this weekend. instructor says im a really smooth rider, so hopefully those twisties are in my future. I was gonna ask how the carbs do in high altitudes, but you just answered that question!

I can't wait to try the million dollar hwy. You now live where I very badly want to live. How do you like it out there? I've been here a touch over 2 years now and really like it, but San Diego really grabbed me when I visited a long time ago.

Rick, thank you man, I really didn't want to make a bad situation worse right now! Maybe when winter comes and I can secure some sort of 'not' outdoor storage i'll try and tackle that job

 

I prefer the high country vs the beach......I dont ride out here on the interstates unless I am headed to the hills or to the beach...just too crazy......young punks & their Hondas zipping in & out....well.....just too much traffic......if one goes down...you have about 5 or 6 cars putting tire marks on your back.....

With regards to Colorado, i was there in the early eighties 81 thru 85.....loved it in Western Colorado....

 

Five- I couldn't imagine riding on those freeways out there either! It truly is insane, and that motorcycle law is nuts, where people can feel free to ride in between cars!!

So I'm ordering new float needles/seats, gaskets, and new drain screws from Len tomorrow. I'll spend the next 2 days figuring out how to get these drain screws out. If I can get just one out, then I'll be OK, I'll just have to swap bowls. Hopefully I can get em all out. Once the new gaskets and float valves are in, I'll attempt to do a wet set, then a bench sync.

My question is, those pilot screws I took out to look at (which were VERY clean already and came out without any issues) are now all backed out 2 1/2 turns each. they were originally all different. One was 5 turns in, the other 6 turns, the other a couple, and the last 3 turns. What exactly do these screws do?

I'll need to ride on a bench sync for a while till I can either borrow or secure the funds to get a YICS stick and carb sticks. I'll also need to save for a carbtune. I just found out my helmet expired, so those tools will take me quite some time to save for. Can I run on a bench sync OK?

 

Lane splitting is actually allowed in much of the world outside of US. Some people think it's actually safer.

Good plan. Heat always works for me.

They adjust mixture by controlling the amount of gas getting in.

You can try to plug YICS with some oily rags. I don't know how well that works, but people here say they did it.

I made my own manometer: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=42895.html

 

short answer, they control the a/f ratio (mixture) at small throttle openings.
long answer, their magic, Rick can explain it better than i.
why were they set different ? manufacturing tolerances
you can ride on a bench sync, not the finest tune but it'll work.
some people (me) don't use a yics tool but we won't go into that here.
you can make a carb balancing tool for a few bucks and get the same results as a store bought one.

 

Interesting build, I'll see if I can pull that off. I still don't know exactly how to even use one of those things. Polock, thanks man. The caps were off so someone before me messed with those screws. Bench sync is the paper clip method correct? The butterflies were really in sync actually, just eyeballing it though, I'll get in there and get it as close as I can.. The carbs were shockingly clean, hopefully its just a float valve problem (gas in crankcase) because other than that, I see no issue with these carbs. Even the enrichment circuit in the float bowls was absolutely spotless. 10 feet shot of carb cleaner on all 4 bowls... man I just want to ride! Hopefully I can get this puppy back on the road by next weekend. Counting on Len's fast shipping

 

Don't battle with Sync Screws that might not have moved in their lifetime.
Prep them for Fine-tuning.
Pull them. Replace corroded or Striped ones.
If they're OK, ... Wire Wheel them pristine.
Lube. Replace.
Get them ready for Tweaking.

Bench Sync with the Throttle Plate of No.-3 effectively closed.
[ 3X5 Card, Business Card, Resume' Paper or Envelope, 35mm Negative Strips ]

Preset:
Dealership Implemented Setting:
Between 2.75 + 3.00 cheated closer to 3.00 Turns Out.
ColorTune if possible.

Assure that the Pilot System WILL keep the Bike Idling on-its-own.
Tweaked, so that it won't stall unless it runs out of gas.
Adjustments to Pilot Mixture Screws are made with great precision.
Disregard the "Quarter-turn" gradients.
Tweak = ( +/- ) Width of a Nickel.
The "Sweet-Jesus I-got-it" spot can come and go in a quarter-turn.

Your Mission:
Get a steady Idle without hearing "The Poppity's".
Once you find where the Bike will Idle you will be in the Ball Park.
A ColorTune Plug will put you right-in the Ball Park, ... quick.

After she Idle's like a Sewing Machine, ...
Add what the Plant --> needs <-- to keep you from having to goose-it (Throttle-blipping) to get-out-of-the-hole.

Don't make 2 adjustments at a time.
You won't know what you did that changes the tuning.

Take two aspirins.
Buy a Genuine Yamaha Factory Workshop Manual.
Say Goodnight Gracie.

 

Rick, you're talking about the little pilot screws right? The ones right next to the plunger?

Or are you talking about the screws that sync the butterflies together? It sounds like you're talking about both! Gah I feel so dumb, and yes I've read and re-read the haynes manual many times on this!

Thanks for all your help by the way

 

He's talking about both.

Mixture tweaking (the pilot screws X4) comes AFTER sync.

There are three sync screws. The #3 carb has no sync screw, it is "home base" and adjusted via the main knob.

The way it works is this (especially if you have a two-bottle or tube loop type "comparative" manometer)

Carb #1 is "slaved" off #2; adjust #2 and it takes #1 with it.

SO: You sync #1 to #2. Then you sync #2 to #3; it brings #1 with it. If using a two-holer rig, you can go back and compare #1 to #3, but #2 is the key. Then you sync #4 to #3.

During the process if the idle gets too low or too high, you adjust with the main knob (which adjusts all 4.)

YICS should be blocked for this process; yes you can sync without blocking YICS but doing it that way can "mask" a slightly out of sync condition.

THEN after all is sync'ed and done, then and only then do you start fiddling with the pilot mixture screws.

 

Awesome, thank you Fitz. I'll be running a bench sync for the time being actually so I just won't mess with the pilot screws till I can come up with the money for a carb sync tool.

Much appreciated guys. Taking torch to float bowl tomorrow in anticipation of receiving my order from Len. So nothing on the gaskets that I'm getting in? Just scrape off old gasket and place new gasket on carb body, connect float bowls and I'm done? No RTV or anything like that?

 

No gasket sealer. Lightly grease them so they won't stick and can be re-used. LIGHTLY.

Here we go with "the money for a carb sync tool" thing again.

All you need to make a comparative (2-"hole") manometer is a 7 or 8 foot hunk of clear vinyl tubing, a yardstick, and a few CC's of ATF (or even motor oil.) Or you could get real fancy and use two plastic baby bottles and considerably LESS than 7' of clear vinyl tubing. Neither one should set you back more than $10, if that.

My point being, you don't need to buy a sync tool if you don't want to.

 

Fitz, I'll have to really dig into those threads then man. I honestly have no idea what I'm looking at when I look at those tools lol. I know you'll blast me for that but I've never touched a bike engine until the first of July So far I feel pretty accomplished, but it's all a tad overwhelming. But fun nonetheless, thanks to you guys here. Hopefully I'll have her back on the road by this weekend. And maybe, just maybe build a manometer and sync her up too

 

pic may help you to understand sync screw vs pilot mixture screws

 

Thanks Five, that helps a bunch man!

I picked up my torch today from home depot. That thing has like a 7 inch flame, I really hope I don't ruin anything tomorrow. Gonna attempt to remove those pesky drain screws.... Here goes nothing

 

screw to board......heat up area around drain screw....use phillips to untighten hopefully......use a little olive oil...take your time.....it may take a few times....but should work......do all 4 need extracting or were you able to get a few loose......do not strip them or you will have to use a screw extractor to get them out.....replace with allen head drain bowl screws from Chacal....

Good luck

 

Allen head screws shipped today, along with half a million other things

Problem is, whoever was in these before me stripped them. There is very little I can latch on to and that's what worries me a lot. We'll see how it goes. can i hit the screws with brake cleaner to clear the gunk off the screws? shouldn't hard anything right?

Man I dunno if this is gonna work considering these screws are essentially stripped already, we'll see how it goes. All 4 need extracting.

 

Here is the link on baby bottle manometer......this is much cheaper than a Carbtune Pro which I bought from Chacal for about $155.....ouch plus a colortune from him...Ouch again....

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... meter.html

 

Would you be so kind as to let a new guy borrow those? I'd pay shipping both ways, and I'll send back a nice six pack of local brews

I'll check out that link! Thank you, you've been a big help five

 

So syncing only involves the three big screws. THen you need a colortune to do the 4 pilot screws? If that's right, I 'think' I'm understanding this a little now.

 

I have not even used them yet myself......but I am about to in the near future.... I am getting close myself to fire this puppy up......getting anxious myself.....

kleraudio....be optimistic.....hopefully you can ride this weekend.....but if it doesn't happen....do not get disappointed....the more you know about your bike & how it functions.....the better off you will be down the road......you are on the right approach.......

Others here get disappointed & discourage & wind up selling their bike....they just don't see it all the way to the end.....

I can tell you this are great bikes when running properly......they will give you much enjoyment when there are screaming....it just takes patience when resurrecting from the dead....

 

DREMEL the damaged Head of the Drain Screw enough to allow you to place a Perfectly-centered ... Center Punch.

Drill the Screw progressively larger using sharp-as-new Drill Bits.
When you have a Drilled Hole --> LARGE <-- enough to accommodate the EZ-out ... it won't be --> DEEP <-- enough for the EZ-out to get enough Purchase.

You have to --> SHORTEN <-- the Business-end of the EZ-out to be successful.

Assistant.
Gloves.
HEAT! The Drain area. NOT the EZ-out.
After heating, ... Insert Ez-out in the remnant.
SEAT the EZ-out with a few taps so it gets a bite.

After the EZ-out is Seated.
Apply a SOCKET to the Flats on the EZ-out.
Use a Ratchet that can take a whack.
Apply significant Pre-undo Torque.

Arrange the angle of the Ratchet Handle to accept a smart blow with a Hard Wood Hammer Handle.

Give it a whack.
Cross your fingers.

 

Rick,

Are his screws buggered up.....if not he should be able to get them out, I was able to get mine out using just heat & a Phillips head with care & patience....

 

Phillips isn't happening, this will have to be a flathead screwdriver for any hope.... man I hope I can get these out! Actually, I only 'really' need to get one out, if I can get just one I'll consider it OK. All 4 would be great but 1 would do the trick. Then I have 30 dollars in screws I won't know what to do with

Oh, when wet setting, it seems like you guys are keeping the carbs on your "whatever you created to level your rack"... are you unscrewing float bowls and such with the rack on the stand?

Or is it
1)measure fuel level
2)drain all float bowls
3)unmount rack
4) unscrew single float bowl and adjust float
5) re attach float bowl after adjustment
6)fill with fuel again
7)repeat
???

 

If the Screw Heads aren't buggered, ...

Use a CRAFTSMAN Hand-held Impact Tool.
(You have to Grind the width of the Bit to fit the Drain Hole.)

Its KEY to apply generous Pre-Impact Torque on the Tool.

 

Rick,

With all of these tools as suggestions to kleraudio, we are driving him into poverty.....Dremels, Impacts, JIS tools, Carbtune, ColorTune,...etc.....ntotice to mention all the parts purchased from Chacal......

So one see these 300-400 purchased bikes turn into so much more....

 

Yea this is getting bad. I paid a grand for the bike (guess I didn't know any better, and it ran, so I was pretty happy, then I found this site )

 

kleraudio - is there anyone on this site around you? Do you have any gearhead or mechanic friends? You don't need to necessarily BUY tools, sometimes you just need to BORROW tools

 

Milliken,

I don't know anyone out here. As sad as that sounds LOL. I moved from Tampa a year and a half ago. Knew a ton of gearheads out there, but since moving here, I got a job at a tiny company. There's like 5 people here. 2 of which ride, but they are paid handsomely, all work is done at the dealer. Sooooo, yea, I'm kind of screwed in that department.

 

Kler, sent you a PM bro.

Also, have you checked the member's map???

http://xjbikes.com/dfmaps/oper=ShowMap/map_id=1.html

 

Can anyone help with this? I've just burnt the shit out of my thumb, put olive oil, tons of heat, and cant get this thing to budge.

 

For starters, SCREW IT TO A BOARD like a few of us have suggested so you don't burn your thumb AND you can lean on the screwdriver.

Two sheet metal or wood screws and a hunk of scrap lumber. One screw each in opposing corners.

 

They WILL. It really has nothing to do with how much you paid for it, there is 30+ years' worth of maintenance that will have to be caught up on and certain items refurbished, rebuilt, replaced or otherwise dealt with.

Which is the very same advice I've given you and every other newbie that's come along expecting to be able to ride a 30-year old bike.

It CAN BE DONE. Myself and many others have succeeded. But it is NOT cheap, easy or quick. That's just the simple, hard truth.

 

Did you screw it to a board first......trying to loosen it while handholding it can be difficult....attach to board and put the board against something solid like a wall and try unloosening it.....it may take several tries

 

Get a nice, fresh $20 note ($50 if you want to make extra-sure) from your local bank.

Find a nearby machine shop.

Take bowl(s) and $20 to them and tell them you're a poor college student.

P.S. if any of pilot mixture screws are also seized or have fouled heads, take those carb bodies to them at the same time and double your fun!

 

Five, that thing is rounded off man, I can't get anything to even get in there...

 

At this point like Chacal said, maybe you need a machine shop to remove any float bowl
screws or buggered up pilot mixture screws

 

called three machine shops, all said they won't do it. I got 3 out of 4 out.... would really like to get this one out....

 

Don't call them, just show up with $$ in hand, over the phone if it's not a $500+ job they don't want to bother; in-person, when they see it's a 4-minute job, they'll be glad to trade a few precious moments for your cold hard cash. Smaller shops are a better bet.........

 

Len, won't I be OK with just 1 stripped screw, or will that be a major PITA when wet setting? I can't find 'machine shops', dont even know what that is. I just called local auto garages...

 

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=Agl ... =yfp-t-900

 

I think a Craftsmen Hand-held might bail you out.
I'll let you borrow mine.
I'll send you the slimed-down regular bit and a crosss-head bit that fits.

PM me with your complete address and phone.

You need to mount the Bowl on a 2X4 with Wood Screws.
The 2X4 needs to be anchored such that none of the Impact is wasted.
I heated-up the stuck ones I removed with MAP Gas.
It's a bit hotter than Propane.