Carb cleaning adventure/questions thread!

Wait Rick, so no RTV sealant, liquid tape instead?

Where are the pilot mixture screws? oh man now I'm worried I'll have my manual when I do this, hopefully they tell me what each part is...

Emery board festival? You lost me there

 

Depends on the size of the Cracks.

Some guys like RTV.
Others dribble Plasti-Dip in them
Liquid Electrical Tape
5-Minute Epoxy
Bicycle Inner Tube.

An "Emory Board Festival" is using a bunch if them to Sand and Beautify the Repair before applying a cosmetic finishing touch.

 

About to pop off the first float bowl after dinner. . Wish me luck

As far a wet setting. I'm gonna just use the graduated tube from Len. Ill have to put in an order tomorrow. Ill adjust using that and a long piece of fuel tubing. Hopefully I can get the order quick. No riding this weekend it looks like.

That's cool though. Do I need to break the rack to clean enrichment circuit?

 

So I followed Rick's guide along with my Haynes, but I only did carb 1. Still took the whole enrichment rod out and cleaned all the enrichment valves.

But here's the thing. The carbs are really clean already. No screws were tough to get out, all the jets were clear, everything was just fine. The one thing I did find was there was a rock under the screen of the float valve seat. Would that have caused gas to leak into the crankcase? This was only carb 1. 2, 3, and 4 are tomorrow. There were also several tiny little pebbles in the valve seat under the filter screen.....

With that all said, I'm kind of upset I pulled the carbs as I don't have any tools to sync them with and they are literally spotless.

I'm starting to think the fautly petcock is to blame for gas in airbox and crankcase, God only knows how long that thing was leaking. On position was basically prime but a little slower flow. I think in time, even if the floats are correct it would cause leakage.

Anyways, I'm going to do the other 3 carbs since this thing is out anyways, but I don't plan on finding much. Carb 1 passed the clunk test with flying colors. I just don't know what the issue is. But my oil definitely smells like gas. What is this about a YICS tool to sync the carbs? Is this true?

Here's a pic of carb 1 when I took the float bowl off, (jets removed)

 

They're not "spotless" if you've been finding little rocks and pebbles in the beanie screens.

You also need to take them apart a tad further; pull the emulsion tubes. Clean thoroughly inside and out. Pull the pilot mixture screws and replace their tiny o-rings and be sure those passages are CLEAN. Make sure the enrichment "wells" in the float bowls (where that long tube goes into) are clear. Inspect inside the float valves, look at the seats; polish if necessary. Inspect the tips of the float valve needles, replace if worn, damaged or hard as a rock. These two items are critical, you had a float valve issue.

DO NOT USE SANDPAPER in carbs. Carb cleaner, rags, maybe some Scotchbrite. And ONLY if carb cleaner on a stout rag won't get it clean.

SLOW DOWN. You're on the right track, don't rush it and end up joining the "I've cleaned my carbs five times" club.

Don't fret the "lack of tools" for doing your final vac sync. There are "shade tree mechanic" solutions for both a manometer and to block YICS.

And one last item: IT'S NOT THE PETCOCK'S FAULT. You could hook a hose DIRECTLY from the tank to the carbs and IF THE FLOAT VALVES ARE WORKING CORRECTLY THE CARBS WILL NOT FLOOD.

A leaky petcock ony ENABLES the issue; the float valves not doing their job is the root cause. I've accidentally left mine on PRI for a week and nothing bad happened, because my float valves work correctly.

 

Thanks Fitz. I got the sandpaper to do the clunk test per Rick's advice, I wasn't going to sand anything else. But it passed the clunk test.......

Pilot screws, do I have to count the amount of turns it takes to get them out? I did not do that on the first one, but did on the others....

What does a 'worn' float needle tip look like? Mine looked pretty good. When you say emulsion tubes what do you mean? Is that the tube that is lifted when I turn on the choke? If so I took all 4 out and wiped down with carb cleaner, but they were already very clean to begin with.

Can I spray carb cleaner down the hole where the pilot screws were removed? I didnt know if I should do that yesterday or not.... I can remove the pilot screws again tonight and spray down there though.

I guess I'll just clean them up really good and order new pilot screw o rings. i only have that workspace until Sunday though so I don't know how I'll install the new parts. I've read that new float needles aren't exactly the same length as the stock ones in the bike, will that mess with anything in the seats, because those look just fine and I don't want to replace those. Hell, I think my float needles are fine too, but something is letting gas flow to my airbox/crankcase....

 

Oh, the emulsion tube, that's the one under the main jet right with the holes in it? I pulled that too. Spotless. Could see through each and every hole on to the other side. I still sprayed them down, but yea, no cleaning required on those, I'm telling ya, this thing looks like it was recently cleaned by someone....

Still doesnt explain gas in the crank case. Heres the thing though, if they cleaned the carbs, but left the airbox "gassy" could that be why I'm still smelling fuel in the crank case? Should I order a new air filter too?

 

Gas in the crank case was because one or more float valves did not stop fuel flow as it should. Period. We've covered that.

You spray carb cleaner through every hole and passage in the carbs; YES down the hole where the pilot screws come out of. You can count and make note of the original positions of the pilot screws, but just for "reference." You're going to set them all at 2 1/2 turns out to begin with.

As for the emulsion tubes, the INSIDE BORE is often overlooked.

Your incorrectly operating float valve could simply have been due to a previous mechanic's failure to properly set the float levels; or by one of those "pebbles" getting caught between a float valve and its seat.

And if your air filter is oil or gas contaminated/saturated then by all means replace it.

 

Fitz, the inside bore of the emulsion tube? emulsion tube is the tube under the main jet correct? I looked through the holes and clearly saw out the other side, would that mean the 'inside bore' is good to go? Again I only did carb 1 so I can go back in if need be. I also sprayed into the center and it came out the other side.... I just want to make sure emulsion tube means the same to both of us lol!

2 1/2 turns out? Does that mean tighten all the way and loosen 2.5 turns?

The pebbles weren't in between the needle and the seat (I don't think) the pebbles I saw were outside of the filter of the seat. If that makes sense, surely one or two tiny ones probably got through that filter, but from what I could see, the pebbles were outside of the seat screen..... You can actually see the pebble in that picture I took a few posts back.

I haven't looked at the air filter yet, but there is a K&N sticker on the airbox... If I just order a stock air filter (KN too pricey right now) it'll fit no problem right? i'd like to order that today but should I look in the airbox first? I'd have to wait to get home for that.

Thanks again man, I'm looking forward to fixing these issues! I've read Len's wet set guide probably 100 times so far, not sure how i'm gonna pull this off really, but I'll do my best!

Oh, and lets say the floats are set incorrectly, shouldn't the needle still close on the seat regardless of where the float level is? unless it's too low I guess then that needle would always be in the down (open) position right?

 

There is a ring around the needle tip. No scratching or anything like that, but just a ring where it rests in the seat. That is OK right?

The needles Len sells are 1mm longer than OEM and I'd like to stay with the correct size so I don't pull my hair any more than I hvae to with this wet set that I still have no idea how to do but will attempt anyways!

 

The ring "from where it rests in the seat" is a WEAR line. That is a WORN float valve. I'm pretty sure Len has both OE and aftermarket parts, maybe not. Even so, 1mm difference will be easily adjusted for.

As for "wet-setting" float levels, I believe this: http://www.xj4ever.com/setting%20fuel%20levels.pdf has been posted more than once in answer to your queries. Simply read it carefully and follow it; it's not difficult. You don't need a fancy stand; just any way to hold the rack upright and level in all directions. I just "pad" my bench vise w/cardboard and use that.

Because you can see through the little holes in the emulsion tubes DOES NOT mean that the inside bore itself is clean. Yes, I'm talking about the "tube under the main jet." Be sure the inside BORE is as clean as the outside. Take the tube out and LOOK through it; not just through the little holes. The emulsion tubes need to be clean inside and out.

Yes, 2.5 turns out means 2.5 turns back from gently bottomed.

I would highly recommend a new, stock paper air filter over a K&N. If you already have a K&N fitted, it may contribute to tuning woes. You definitely want to LOOK and see what you're dealing with.

And no, it is entirely possible for a float to be mis-adjusted in such a way that it never shuts off.

 

I suggested using standard tools to save money IF he was going to replace the screws anyway.

forgot about these buggers... Chacal used to sell a special tool for these guys.. dont know if he still does. I took a flathead screwdriver to a bench grinder and made my own (i make a lot of custom tools)

Wet setting isn't hard. It's just annoying and time consuming.just touching the float tang will move the fuel level about 30 feet (ok seriously maybe about 1mm) first time i did it i went back + forth between flooding and empty bowl like 5 times. it's just like most other things on here. it takes patience and time (and a few beers) but you'll get it right. then you will look back on it and say "that wasn't so bad". then you'll start looking for a new project bike

 

Thanks Fitz, just ordered a stock paper air filter. Looks like I'll need new float needles, that wear isn't bad but it's still wear I guess.... Waiting on Len to email me back so I can order those up. Yes, I've read that PDF countless times. where can i get a long tube to remotely send gas from my tank? what size does it need to be? Doesn't say in that pdf.

I can't think of a way to make those carbs level when doing the wetset, I'll think of something i guess!

 

You need a fuel line from any parts store. Get the same diameter as your current hose from tank to carbs (probably 3/8 inch).

 

I would add that using your bike's fuel tank while setting floats is a PITA. I converted a coffee can to a remote fuel tank by using a nylon fitting (barbed on one end, threaded on the other) a neoprene fender washer (as a gasket), and an appropriately sized jam nut. It doesn't drip, I can cover it with it's own lid to reduce fire risk, and it sits nicely on the bracket I made for my pegboard. Total cost was under $10.00 (including the fuel line).

 

Milliken, I'm sure it's not hard but I have basically no space and I can't feasibly think of a way to get these carbs to sit perfectly level!

If I need to lower the fuel level, which way do I bend the 'arm'?

Man, looks like I'm gonna need to wait on float needles to arrive in the mail... another week down on the bike and the cold weather is almost here!

 

DYI Carb Stand

To lower the fuel level you "nudge" or "tweak" the the float tab toward the needle.

I know it's difficult when you want to ride but can't. Think of it in the long-term. You can't really enjoy the bike as it is now, but once all the work is done you'll be having fun for many seasons of riding (and only needing to keep up on regular maintenance). If you don't do the work you'll never get to truly enjoy the machine; you'll be cursing it for "breaking down" all the time.

 

That carb stand is sweet! What does he mean by smooth/threaded?

That's a good point man, but I bought a bike to ride this year, I've always wanted one (30 years old now) and finally got one. You know the feeling. I might just get a bottom end rebuild kit from len for 100 bucks using bill me later just so I can get riding again. If wet set is done correctly and I used the bottom end rebuild from Len (needle and new seat with filter) my gas in crankcase woes should be solved.

 

i built an even cheaper carb stand out of plywood, some L brackets and screws laying around ... total out of pocket cost $0.00

I went through 2 years of this. If you want to ride now, sell this bike and drop 8-10 grand on a new one. If you want something that trancends the experience of buying a bike... keep working on this one. the knowledge that you will gain through this resurrection experience is invaluable. Not to mention the satisfaction and looks that you get when you tell people that you (re)built that.... Fitz has posted this story before.... someone told him that they liked his new bike... then he had to explain to them that it was actually 30 years old.... and they didn't believe him.... My neighbor spends about 3 grand a year maintaining his fairly new harley (not mentioning the upgrades). I can do anything to my bike for the cost of parts (and beer)

 

Right on Milliken, that's what I needed to hear! I'm gonna take my time and do this right. Plus all I need for the carbs are o rings for the pilot screws, float needles, and seats. I found a rebuild kit on amazon for 16 bucks. I'll get 4 of them. The carbs are very clean, just leaking gas into the crankcase, I think this will solve it, what do you think?

http://www.amazon.com/Carburetor-Repair ... carburetor

I'll have to ride on bench synced carbs for a month or so till I can afford the proper tools, but I think if I'm meticulous enough I can get really close. Then i'll do a colortune... First things first, get the gas out of the crankcase! Would that set do me right you think?